Wing Chun vs. JKD Training Methods

[willytime]

A little background on me.....trained JKD/Muay Thai for 4 years. Switched to Wing Chun for the last 6. I'm now ooking into a JKD/MT/Kali school. Questions for those who have trained in multiple arts, preferably with some time in a more traditional style.

What I've noticed is the traditional styles focus on principles of fighting, whereas the more modern or sport styles focus on technique and athleticism. JKD and Muay Thai also seem to be set up to be able to train "harder". What I mean by that is you hit things, you sweat more, there is a tougher outward mentality to the training. Wing Chun is more about inner mental toughness and strength.

Now I believe if the majority had this "outward mentality" in a traditional art (as they likely did in the streets of China), it has more attributes to give a fighter. Maybe more depth is what I mean - Fighting Principles, Iron Palm, Pressure Point Therapy, Forms training to engage the mind, etc.

On the flip side, I think JKD/Muay Thai could possibly have more to give the modern urban warrior - speed, toughness, endurance, ability to take a punch, etc.

In today's world, which do you see as more important? Do you think you will train JKD until you're old? Do you think it is more limited from a principal standpoint?

I have TREMENDOUS RESPECT for all arts mentioned and I have trained very hard in each. I know guys in each that would destroy the average martial artist so please, no telling me one is better than the other....stick to what you think is more important to you- principles or techniques - and does this change as you grow older?

Thanks for your input!

[m.artist]

basically what it comes down to nowadays, is who's faster?
who's stronger? who can take a hit? who can dish a hit?
who's more athletic? who's not?
in a fight, your discipline does not matter. if you're out of shape, you lost. simple as that. no style or secret technique will save you. if you want to live/win or whatever, get into shape. that's why plenty of "karate/kung fu masters" are continually losing nowadays in mma competition. and why? because they are all bumbling morons who thought that their "superior" style was going to make up for their lack of actual skill
once you've answered those questions, it really becomes not a matter of what style or system or way you are taking. it becomes a matter of "have you prepared enough for when the time comes?"
and that's what it should always be

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Training

Having trained in traditional arts (Ryukyu Kempo, Japanese Jujitsu Modern Arnis) and swiching over to JKD unlimited recently and training with Burton Richardson, I do feel that JKD, Muey Thai, and MMA training will better help you defend yourself against a much more aggressive attacker. Having said that, in class I find that the things that set me apart and give me an advantige are the things that I took with me from more traditional systems, mainly because the students there haven't been exposed to them and aren't ready to defend against it. Everything I learn at JKD Unlimited is 100% usable in a street fight, but everyone else in class does it too. The maybe 10% Of the stuff I use from traditional arts works there too, but it is what sets me apart. Most students that I've met in JKD and MMA have a backround in a more traditional system, just like Bruce Lee did. I guess you have to ask yourself what do you hope to accomplish with your training.
It seems pretty clear to me that you've already got the most important part, the right attitude. After that, everything else is cake!

[shasan]

....stick to what you think is more important to you- principles or techniques - and does this change as you grow older?

i don't think you have to choose between the two. I'm sure JKD, MT, MMA, or other 'modern' methods are based on principles, and on the flip-side, I was always under the impression that there was a lot of emphasis on strength and conditioning in the traditional martial arts.

[m.artist]

i don't think you have to choose between the two. I'm sure JKD, MT, MMA, or other 'modern' methods are based on principles, and on the flip-side, I was always under the impression that there was a lot of emphasis on strength and conditioning in the traditional martial arts.

Not hardly nowadays. Today, most traditional schools place more emphasis on how many black belts they can squeeze out, how many trophies can cover the window in the front of the building, and how much money the "Master" can get from his students without having to actually roll with them
Now, there are some traditional schools out there who are still very much in-tune with the "battle" mode epmhasis that the ma's were orginally intended for, which to an extent is good. But just because you train tough, doesn't mean you have the skills. I guarantee you that no matter how tough Sylvester Stalone actually trained, he still wouldn't be able to go around with Lewis or Trinnidad

[BeingAtOne]

To be honest i think both sides are important. its simple and true and that a real martial artist should train and use both sides of the equation it will develop a person into a more rounded and solid martial artist.

[EmptyneSs]

stallone was one of the most in shape people ever man, he may not be able to beat up a professional fighter, but i bet he would kick alotta peopls asses, and i dont know if he actually trained for rocky, but if he trained back when he was rambo, dude he woulda been even more hardcore.

[Tee Sok]

It is true that the majority of the Kung Fu "masters" of today don't even think about working out and getting into shape for an eventual street fight. It is VERY TRUE that they care more about the image and their business, and this is a shame. Traditional Kung Fu body/mind training is hard, just think about the conditioning and training routines that real Shaolin monks once performed. There are still some Kung Fu masters that train the most advanced students in that way, but you don't see that so much...
Of course the real revolution of traditional Kung Fu and of fighting in general has been brought by Bruce Lee, no need to talk about that here. Techniques are important, but I believe that in fighting the first thing that matters is the attitude, and the training should be "open-minded" and realistic.

[BeingAtOne]

I think you hit it rate on the button!

[willytime]

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like everyone has a good attitude towards training here. Just a note - careful with what you "reject". If you focus on the principals behind techniques, it will make it easier to reject a technique that is inefficient in meeting the principal. If you cannot make a technique fit a time tested principal, work with your sifu before throwing it out on your own. Sometimes you hate a technique for a while, then thru training, it becomes one of your favorites. A good sifu will help you with this and you'll be glad you didn't "reject" something too early.

I'm going to check out the JKD school tonight for a free class. Should be fun to talk to them about these topics also. Anyone ever train with Sifu Jeff Jones? I met him briefly this weekend and he seemed very down to Earth and a nice guy. Has great credentials in competitions too. Its Tri-State Martial Arts Academy. Looks like a great place with good people. Let me know if you have any insight.

Thanks again to everyone.