Opinions on the straight blast

[Nutz]

BE>>what I'm wondering about is moving into using HKE from it. If I had the guy backpeddling where I had to chase after him, my biggest concern would be not tripping over him when he fell. HKE implies an opponent who is still standing and somewhat immobile. At least to me. I could just be misunderstanding something.

I can understand this sort of thinking. I think some people over-complicate things by playing devil's advocate and asking "what if" far too much. If you SB someone and they backpedal out enough that it shuts down the blast, then he's prabably ripe for some kicking action. If he drops his head (as many untrained fighter do when overwhelmed like in the SB) then he is giving you the opportunity for HKE. If he mind-freezes and locks up in the current positioning that the SB was initiated in, then feel free to rearrange his face at will.

....and he always said that the SB was not meant to be Knock out punches. It was for driving your apponant back nocking him off balance to set up your next power blow.

At this point I'll agree with you as this was how it was taught to me. It was a tool I could use to get into my bread-and-butter zone of HKE/clinch. Its what I'm physically best suited for when it comes to a fight.

The manor in wich a SB is delivered could not permit it to be powerful, also using the SB leaves you open for unbalancing yourself ,because you are driving forward so ambisiously an opponant would simply have to step aside and stick his leg out.

Now this I don't agree with. Your delivery might limit its power, but I know that it does indeed hurt when getting drilled with it, mainly because you get a lot of bodyweight into the punches by sheer virtue of forward momentum. And don't think for a second the forward momentum is dead and just steady pressure, because its not. Its an explosiveness, a jump off the line akin to a 50 yard dash (down the centerline with the addition of punches in ultra-rapid succession).

I dont know what kind of guys you've been in fights with,but the kind I've been in fights with dont go down from one shot, sometimes even two, sometime their swinging so violently you dont know what to do . I've seen people with years of training be put down hard buy someone with no training the includes me. The chances of you having to fight someone with any kind of training are slim,but we train for it anyway

And that's why we train for all elements of a fight, and with all different kinds of opponents.

the truth is a person with good boxing skills that have been developed buy years of sparring, ring fights, and street fights would laugh at the straight blast. I'm still waiting for video's of SB in action.

You've just described several of my past opponents. And yes the SB was 100% effective. Remember, everything has a time and place for when its appropriate. The SB is not the be all, end all some think it is. But the cold hard truth of the matter is that its amazingly effective, which is why most "JKD" schools still teach it. Its withstood the test of time. As for the videos, we've referred them to you twice already. Look them up for yourself.

[Nutz]

Oh, and the guy you're thinking of that was in the UFC was Todd Medina. And he was originally in UFC 5, not 1 or 2. I believe he won the first match and lost in the second. As for his "style", he later retermed his as MMA with BJJ as his core.

[Tant01]

Nutz, for the record, I was quoting Brokenelbow's post..."BE>>..." I'll work on it...

[mfern31]

I guess we all have a different oppinion and I'm willing to respect your's, however just because the SB stood the test of time doesnt mean it works. There are many styles that stood the test of time and in a real fight dont work. I just want people to question their art whatever it may be, its the only way of getting to the core of what is usefull. I know people have this vision of Bruce Lee as a great master of the martial arts and dont like to question his methods, but its neccesary. I for would love to see film of Bruce in actual combat, although I dont know if it exists.
Thanks for the interesting conversation.

[Tant01]

tanto1,
I trained JKD under an Instructor who was trained by Innosanto himself. He also trained with Vunak, and he always said that the SB was not meant to be Knock out punches. It was for driving your apponant back nocking him off balance to set up your next power blow. ....
..... the truth is a person with good boxing skills that have been developed buy years of sparring, ring fights, and street fights would laugh at the straight blast.
I'm still waiting for video's of SB in action.

mfern31, I'm happy for you! Those guys have some good stuff! Danny's daughter Dianna Lee is hot stuff! Not bad with the steel either. To be frank the topic is opinions on the SB. We know yours, you know mine. (if you actually read my posts?) Maybe there are still secrets in Jun Fan Kung-Fu? The associate instructor at our local Academy must know nothing about JKD's SB then or he lied about the intent of the technique? It's virtually identical to a "forward drive" technique from older sources... And I've seen boxers using very similar methods.

[Nutz]

Nutz, for the record, I was quoting Brokenelbow's post..."BE>>..." I'll work on it...

I know. I wasn't really directing it at anyone in particular. Sorry for the confusion.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Use the "blast" enough times with fully resisting opponents and you soon see many different reactions to it. It's not just running back, falling down, or stopping.

"entering" after you've caused "pain" to your opponent is nice to say, but gets fundamentally more difficult to discern when you're fighting someone for real. The time frame you have to get a shot in that causes pain and for you to see that opening, realize he's in pain, and enter with a straight blast in a real assault is usually so small you can't catch it.
It's much easier to get that "stunned" reaction when you're sparring with someone throwing jabs, parrying, moving in and moving out.
Very hard when someone devotes themselves to taking your head off with continuous swings, haymakers, clinches,

I was the person who started this thread years ago. I don't think the straight blast innefective, but I don't use it anymore. It's not "effective" enough for me. I can simply just use clinching skills to move into HKE (HKE is not as easy with a fully resitant person either...but that's another thread)

But I prefer push kicks to side kicks these days too, so a lot of it is preference.

[Nutz]

[QUOTE=Ryu (JKD?)]Use the "blast" enough times with fully resisting opponents and you soon see many different reactions to it. It's not just running back, falling down, or stopping.[/url]

My experiences have been just that.

The time frame you have to get a shot in that causes pain and for you to see that opening, realize he's in pain, and enter with a straight blast in a real assault is usually so small you can't catch it.

Like all techniques, there is a time and place for it. However, if you don't take advantage of an opportunity, regardless of the technique, then that's not the fault of the technique but of that person trying to use it.

It's much easier to get that "stunned" reaction when you're sparring with someone throwing jabs, parrying, moving in and moving out.
Very hard when someone devotes themselves to taking your head off with continuous swings, haymakers, clinches,

I don't see your point. All MA techniques are easier in a training environment. That's why you should be building up your training to include "real" environments and opponents. In several very real instances I've employed it against trainined fighters and untrained fighters and the SB was very effective in allowing me to end the altercation. In one such instance it allowed me to close the distance to finish with elbows. In another instance I was able to clinch and found myself performing a guillatine choke.

...I don't think the straight blast innefective, but I don't use it anymore. It's not "effective" enough for me. I can simply just use clinching skills to move into HKE (HKE is not as easy with a fully resitant person either...but that's another thread)
But I prefer push kicks to side kicks these days too, so a lot of it is preference.

I can respect that. Its a issue of "to each his own" and falls to personal preference and what works (or doesn't work) for the individual.

[bartjam]

Many interesting thoughts in this thread guys.
@tant01 : you're right mate, if you execute the SB correctly, chances are your opponent will be back-pedaling, thus making the clinch for delivering HKE difficult. I have all the old Vunak's tapes, and he shows many interesting things, but not in a very realistic (street) way. He rather discusses sparring in a controlled environment. If you want to use HKE, you have to secure a clinch. So it's better to thrust your arms along the centreline, like with a double palm-strike, then clinching and striking with HKE. I rate the palm strikes and the clinch much higher than the SB for this reason.

@mfern31 - it's right, a good boxer and an experienced street-fighter wouldn't be stopped by a SB. But they would by a continuous, vicious attack to their nervous system which simultaneously disrupts their balance. Check the "Shredder" for that purpose (developed by Richard Dimitri of "Senshido")

cheers

[brokenelbow]

Mike, I'm kind of glad to see your 3 points on how the SB doesn't work matches my experience. On the downside it also means that it's a common misuse of the technique.

Very hard when someone devotes themselves to taking your head off with continuous swings, haymakers, clinches,

As with anything. Fighting is very different when you have two people pressing the engagment trying to end it quick. Something I'm working on now Ryu. Too much sparring was a bad thing.

[Tant01]

That's good stuff Mr. Brewer! I'm not afraid to admit I was using it wrong and that I've been lucky. I've been able to use my primitive version and muscle thru...without fail. (so far) LOL I agree with your educated assessment of the SB. In my case I used it almost exclusivly to push them into something or knock them down. It works...

[Tant01]

Tant;
If it's working, you aren't necessarily doing it "wrong." We have a saying in Spec Ops:

"If it's a stupid idea, but it works, it isn't a stupid idea."

How's your clinch game? Are you pretty solid in that range? If so, try using the blast to pop the bad guy a few quick times to keep him startled and/or hurt so you can grab him by the neck and go to work in close range. I think you'll find it takes a lot of that pressure and worry of being countered on the way in off you. Still, if you've been having some luck with the other method, keep it in the toolbox. It sounds like you're putting it together in a way that has merit for you, and if you're knocking guys over with it, you're also giving yourself a chance to bail out of there when he falls. Always a good thing to have...

"clinch game?" LOL I like it. You call it a game, I call it playing. It's all good.
That's the range I think I'm best at. Where I get the ever critical "attachment" to choke or lock and throw, or headbutt, knees and elbows... Yeah, I play that...Good stuff. I'll never forget my first head butt, what a bloody mess...The guy was a racoon face for a few weeks after that. Both eyes and a broken nose...

Both hands pulling his head into your knee strike is one of the first things I taught my kids for SD. My youngest is 5 and (she) just started Pee-Wee soccer! LOL I like to keep the fun in "FUNdamentals". (Only my oldest, 18, has actually used it for SD, so far, and she was VERY pleased with the results)

Like everything else in my toolbox I'm sure there are improvements I could make and that I have much to learn about the finer points of fighting in this range. It's pretty much where I go into Judo mode...

[brokenelbow]

We have a saying in Spec Ops:

Mike I didn't know you were SO. Which group?

[Nutz]

Ah, the 10th has some great guys. I spent a few months with them during OIF. Saved their butts on more than one occation

Ever get to train with the boys from 3rd SFG out of Ft Bragg? Those cats are true pros, albeit a little nutty (or at least the ones I met). Then again I guess you gotta be a little froggy to do some of the stuff they do on a daily basis.

[brokenelbow]

Mike, I train with some guys who were in the 1st and 5th. Part of the antics during the 80's. I was surprised by how many times they used empty hand and knife.

Sine Pari!

Damn, guess I'm buying the beer.