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Do any of you train wrist locks? If so, how do you train them? Lock flows? Off of energy drills (chi sao, hubud, etc.)? While grappling?
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Short answer: Yes.Originally posted by HungryWolf21
Do any of you train wrist locks? If so, how do you train them? Lock flows? Off of energy drills (chi sao, hubud, etc.)? While grappling?
Yes, we train wrist locks. We train them in all of those ways and more. We start by teaching the technique so that the student can develop an understanding of *why* and *how* it works. Once this is developed, then we start building the application of it. I have gotten wrist locks from parrying a punch in full speed sparring.
What is important to teach, though (regardless of how it gets taught) is that joint locks, like everything else, are incidental. If you see the opportunity, take it. If it's not there, then do something else. And always remember: the goal in a fight is to finish the fight, not to get a joint lock/disarm/sweep/throw/takedown/etc. :-)
Mike -
*Flow is the key to the doorway of complexity..."
Freedom Ultimate... !
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Hi Guys,
Here is a great book on Wrist Locks.
Wrist Locks: From Protecting Yourself to Becoming an Expert
by Keith Pascal
Click here --> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...nfanjeetkunedo
Check it out, you will like it.
BIG Sean Madigan
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I was a big nay sayer of wristlocks. "you can't grab a guy's wrist" "people just fight out of them"..la la la etc.
Then I learned more correct techniques
I train them with a lockflow. I train them in my sparring. I train them in my wing chun hia drills (when I'm looking for a finish, frequently). and I use them in my wrestling. If I can't get a guy with an entangled armlock, sometimes (especially if his hand is half positioned anyway) I can quickly switch and lock his wrist.
My suggestion is to learn how each wristlock technique is the 'same'. There are only three major ways the wrist doesn't like to turn. After you know them, you can see which one is being used in a particular technique..then it is all much simpler.
one point of advice: if you train wristlocks in any 'reality' situations, be careful. In judo they got rid of wristlocks in their sparring because they break too often. That's the common explanation. I figure they removed wristlocks so they could wrestle at a harder, more intense level. Wrists are small joints and more likely to break in a frantic situation. Be certain you have control before you take the lock.
Another good book for wristlocks (and nearly all other locks) is called Shaolin chin-na by Yang Jwing-Ming. He has a second chin-na book, it is also good.
-dwayneComment
To ponder about the "wrist lock"...
How does it work ?
Why does it work ?
What makes it work ?
Where does it work ?
When does it work ?
Hint: When someone twists your arm, the standard reaction to the pain signal caused is to force it back into the position that was comfortable, but, the person performing the arm twist knows this and so exerts a little more force against your effort and so causing you more pain and so it revolves until, if you continue to strain, you break but if we do not react like this and instead roll with the arm twist with our body and move out of it (your body knows how, your logic disorientation just stops you) and escape or strike back in so returning the 'energy' they pushed onto you... If worked in different ways you can result in causing them to lock their own joints due to the surprise of not expecting you to do such and from there attacks from any angle can quickly follow to punish then you can move away and wait for their next move... all flow and simplicity of letting our body do what it has to when it has to and to its fullest extent
*and the snake sheds its old skin to begin a new...*
Freedom Ultimate... !
How does it work ?
Why does it work ?
What makes it work ?
Where does it work ?
When does it work ?
Hint: When someone twists your arm, the standard reaction to the pain signal caused is to force it back into the position that was comfortable, but, the person performing the arm twist knows this and so exerts a little more force against your effort and so causing you more pain and so it revolves until, if you continue to strain, you break but if we do not react like this and instead roll with the arm twist with our body and move out of it (your body knows how, your logic disorientation just stops you) and escape or strike back in so returning the 'energy' they pushed onto you... If worked in different ways you can result in causing them to lock their own joints due to the surprise of not expecting you to do such and from there attacks from any angle can quickly follow to punish then you can move away and wait for their next move... all flow and simplicity of letting our body do what it has to when it has to and to its fullest extent
*and the snake sheds its old skin to begin a new...*
Freedom Ultimate... !
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You have 3 options...
R-n-R
Receive, Neutral/Nothing, Resist
Receive = Going with and redirecting or overextending the attacker or attacking appendage
Neutral/Nothing = So what? Another body part attacks the attacker or attacking appendage
Resist = Forcing your way out or through the attacker or attacking appendage
Usually, these three methods or combined in two's or all encompassing. If you only use one, and depend one one, you'll find yourself locked. Too much reacting instead of attacking. Like falling into a trap, sometimes the body lies!
Peace
R-n-R
Receive, Neutral/Nothing, Resist
Receive = Going with and redirecting or overextending the attacker or attacking appendage
Neutral/Nothing = So what? Another body part attacks the attacker or attacking appendage
Resist = Forcing your way out or through the attacker or attacking appendage
Usually, these three methods or combined in two's or all encompassing. If you only use one, and depend one one, you'll find yourself locked. Too much reacting instead of attacking. Like falling into a trap, sometimes the body lies!
Peace
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Does anyone have any thought on how to isolate the wrist? Ususally when I try a wristlock in free sparring (accept for the figure 4 variation) I don't have the leverage to create the necessary flexion. Any ideas or advice?
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Well some ways I have thought about after making them effective while training are eg...
Let them strike out and as it hits its full extension I hit the wrist with my arm to cause them to tighten/loosen up and wrap my wrist around theirs then I can grab the hand and snap it back or twist or so on to many variations depending on position and situation... and this can be done very effectively to both of their wrists/hands and can also frustrate the hell out of someone who uses just "punching" hehehe... and once you have control then you can determine how much pain they will go through and even detain them or to the point of breakage but heck you would have to really "hate" someone to go that far, it also proves effective to open their legs. one I found funny to do was a light but quick kick to the top of their foot then force down hard for a moment and usually their reaction is to move it and they lose balance for a second and while that happens I "swing" myself under/around their detained arm and lock my leg onto either of theirs so enabling me to throw them to the ground and finish them off...
One good way I have found to practise my "wrist work" is just to train with a friend who does not do martial arts, one in particular likes the 'idea' of doing the 'arts' but is to lazy to get in and work out properlly so I encourage him by giving him little friendly taunts over a few days to build up his frustration toward me a bit then ask if he wants to put on the gear with me and have a bit of a work out to which he says "Yeh!" and grins (sometimes he has had some drinks and is feeling liquid courage rushing heh but not drunk...), quite funny and good fun but I never push our friendship hehe I just keep him on his toes and I see improvements in him over time of which he starts to notice himself and tell me about hehe... The emotion can be a very effective weapon and training tool if controlled like everything else
Freedom Ultimate... !
Let them strike out and as it hits its full extension I hit the wrist with my arm to cause them to tighten/loosen up and wrap my wrist around theirs then I can grab the hand and snap it back or twist or so on to many variations depending on position and situation... and this can be done very effectively to both of their wrists/hands and can also frustrate the hell out of someone who uses just "punching" hehehe... and once you have control then you can determine how much pain they will go through and even detain them or to the point of breakage but heck you would have to really "hate" someone to go that far, it also proves effective to open their legs. one I found funny to do was a light but quick kick to the top of their foot then force down hard for a moment and usually their reaction is to move it and they lose balance for a second and while that happens I "swing" myself under/around their detained arm and lock my leg onto either of theirs so enabling me to throw them to the ground and finish them off...
One good way I have found to practise my "wrist work" is just to train with a friend who does not do martial arts, one in particular likes the 'idea' of doing the 'arts' but is to lazy to get in and work out properlly so I encourage him by giving him little friendly taunts over a few days to build up his frustration toward me a bit then ask if he wants to put on the gear with me and have a bit of a work out to which he says "Yeh!" and grins (sometimes he has had some drinks and is feeling liquid courage rushing heh but not drunk...), quite funny and good fun but I never push our friendship hehe I just keep him on his toes and I see improvements in him over time of which he starts to notice himself and tell me about hehe... The emotion can be a very effective weapon and training tool if controlled like everything else
Freedom Ultimate... !
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In Grappling Master, LeBell shows some wrist locks where he isolates the arm by kneeling on the shoulder. I'll post any observations I may have after I've tried it in sparring.
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Originally posted by gungfuhero
I'll post any observations I may have after I've tried it in sparring.
I'll post any observations I may have after I've tried it in sparring.
Comment
Bad Karma just a note on that R-n-R, shouldnt it just be one option straight out, not 2 or 1 but always all 3...
I would perceive it like so...
Receive the force - Take on the force (Water)
Neutralize the force - Reflect the force (Mirror)
Return the force - Respond with the force (Echo)
Why 'resist' something, it will only throw your balance and flow out...
The body never lies, our 'logic' just keeps getting in the way causing us to 'think' it lies and so we get hurt, hence why we have the "creative" and the "logical" sides, as they say, and we should always be using both sides. We seem to look to hard at our logic side and forget about our creativity which is the part that brings new things about anyhow and logic merely defines it later and so on in a circle...
Freedom Ultimate...!
I would perceive it like so...
Receive the force - Take on the force (Water)
Neutralize the force - Reflect the force (Mirror)
Return the force - Respond with the force (Echo)
Why 'resist' something, it will only throw your balance and flow out...
The body never lies, our 'logic' just keeps getting in the way causing us to 'think' it lies and so we get hurt, hence why we have the "creative" and the "logical" sides, as they say, and we should always be using both sides. We seem to look to hard at our logic side and forget about our creativity which is the part that brings new things about anyhow and logic merely defines it later and so on in a circle...
Freedom Ultimate...!
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