To people who don't seem to believe Bruce Lee is the real deal..

[lucidmist]

"sliced"? Oh man, that's even scarier than before!

sigh, so easily spooked, but making the most juvenile noise. yep, you made the right decision hiding at home, sonny!

[Knuckles&Knees]

...but just a quick question.. in most of the people's experiences here, does groundfighting happen alot? i mean based on non-ring fights. so far, i've only ever encountered one messy groundfight...

...so.. bjj, is it practical? not slamming, just a question cos i'm really inexperienced in that area.

In all honesty I've seen plenty fights go to the ground but *most* I've seen have begun and ended with at least one (if not both) opponents standing.

Many years ago, when I was in high school, I ended up on the ground, but to my knowledge I was the only one and it happened by me being knocked out for a few seconds. I was surrounded and jumped by a gang (a literal affiliated gang), under night condition with all street lights on the block blacked-out. When my homies on the bus stop came running the gang members ran off.

I'm a true believer in the practicality of BJJ or other good grappling arts though. I was just showing my homie (a very good friend), who is a hardcore street fighter all the way into his 30's, a strangulation by clothing collar (I believe it's referred to as a "blood choke"), the other day. He loved it! Though... I don't think he knows how to apply it yet. If (key word *if*) I can apply it correctly on say a resisting, aggressive, 300 lbs man who lets say is wearing a leather jacket partially zipped up; I'll hold on for dear life, clamp that hold down, and put that joker unconscious in short time. There ends that fight for the moment.

But, my personal belief, at least the style of fighting I've come up with, is one that places emphasis on striking ability. I personally believe in striking - the ability to be a good striker (first and foremost with your hands). That's just my own personal belief.

If a person can strike well and with power with their hands, feet, and knees they are very dangerous on the "streets."

Most so called street fighters lean back when they throw a blow (plus they tend to throw wild and wide). The reason they lean back - no matter how much aggression and hatred they fight with - is because they *do not want to get hit.* Essentially they *fear a punch or punches hitting them.* And please don't add the culture of people wearing baggy pants hanging half way down their butts - you can't fight well like that (not against me you can't).

[jubaji]

sigh, so easily spooked, but making the most juvenile noise. yep, you made the right decision hiding at home, sonny!

Oh I know! But even hiding at home I'm scared by your intimidating demeanor, Lucy.

[Tom Yum]

I'm a true believer in the practicality of BJJ or other good grappling arts though. I was just showing my homie (a very good friend), who is a hardcore street fighter all the way into his 30's, a strangulation by clothing collar (I believe it's referred to as a "blood choke"), the other day. He loved it! Though... I don't think he knows how to apply it yet. If (key word *if*) I can apply it correctly on say a resisting, aggressive, 300 lbs man who lets say is wearing a leather jacket partially zipped up; I'll hold on for dear life, clamp that hold down, and put that joker unconscious in short time. There ends that fight for the moment.

Its a lapel choke, bro. You can choke using the lapel standing face to face with your opponent, beside or behind. The direction you do it changes whether you are strangulating (cutting off the circulation), choking (preventing blood flow) or both.

But, my personal belief, at least the style of fighting I've come up with, is one that places emphasis on striking ability. I personally believe in striking - the ability to be a good striker (first and foremost with your hands). That's just my own personal belief.

If a person can strike well and with power with their hands, feet, and knees they are very dangerous on the "streets."

Most so called street fighters lean back when they throw a blow (plus they tend to throw wild and wide). The reason they lean back - no matter how much aggression and hatred they fight with - is because they *do not want to get hit.* Essentially they *fear a punch or punches hitting them.* And please don't add the culture of people wearing baggy pants hanging half way down their butts - you can't fight well like that (not against me you can't).

Exactly the reasons why I love muaythai . I think there's more to self-protection than just a fighting art though.

[lucidmist]

In all honesty I've seen plenty fights go to the ground but *most* I've seen have begun and ended with at least one (if not both) opponents standing.

Many years ago, when I was in high school, I ended up on the ground, but to my knowledge I was the only one and it happened by me being knocked out for a few seconds. I was surrounded and jumped by a gang (a literal affiliated gang), under night condition with all street lights on the block blacked-out. When my homies on the bus stop came running the gang members ran off.

I'm a true believer in the practicality of BJJ or other good grappling arts though. I was just showing my homie (a very good friend), who is a hardcore street fighter all the way into his 30's, a strangulation by clothing collar (I believe it's referred to as a "blood choke"), the other day. He loved it! Though... I don't think he knows how to apply it yet. If (key word *if*) I can apply it correctly on say a resisting, aggressive, 300 lbs man who lets say is wearing a leather jacket partially zipped up; I'll hold on for dear life, clamp that hold down, and put that joker unconscious in short time. There ends that fight for the moment.

But, my personal belief, at least the style of fighting I've come up with, is one that places emphasis on striking ability. I personally believe in striking - the ability to be a good striker (first and foremost with your hands). That's just my own personal belief.

If a person can strike well and with power with their hands, feet, and knees they are very dangerous on the "streets."

Most so called street fighters lean back when they throw a blow (plus they tend to throw wild and wide). The reason they lean back - no matter how much aggression and hatred they fight with - is because they *do not want to get hit.* Essentially they *fear a punch or punches hitting them.* And please don't add the culture of people wearing baggy pants hanging half way down their butts - you can't fight well like that (not against me you can't).

thanks for sharing.. choking works, unfortunately, i only know how to apply primitive methods (never had training in those areas). normally i just give it all i have and really thank the Lord nobody has blindsided or stabbed me.

most (not all) street punks tend to shove and take full swings, which is why there's plenty of time to evade and react. however, the part about street fighters leaning back, did you mean when they initiate punches, or when someone's thrown a punch at them? i know some people tend to lean a little backwards when shifting sideways to dodge a punch while simultaneously throwing a punch back, but that can be effective too when the other party has leaned forward while punching.. unless you're talking about leaning back when initiating punches, then yeah, they're afraid to get hit.

baggy pants hanging halfway down butts? total trip hazard + kick-hindrance.

[lucidmist]

Oh I know! But even hiding at home I'm scared by your intimidating demeanor, Lucy.

oops! so sorry girl, perhaps you should turn off your computer, or just stop reading my posts. but i can see you're so afraid of being ignored or forgotten, that you have to post anyway, just to up your post counts and get attention regardless of how redundant your comments are!

[Tom Yum]

Lucid Mist, do you study JKD?

I think one of your previous posts mentions your study of taiji. Don't know much about the system, except that it looks like aikido and is known for generating power from strong rooting rather than muscular exertion.

[jubaji]

Hmmm...that one wasn't scary so much as just shit-all stupid. Try again, Lucy.

[Knuckles&Knees]

Its a lapel choke, bro. You can choke using the lapel standing face to face with your opponent, beside or behind. The direction you do it changes whether you are strangulating (cutting off the circulation), choking (preventing blood flow) or both.

Thanks. I know I and another beginner were shown two different types of chokes to do while positioned in our "guard."

This one: where I would grab high up on the guys left lapel (or in the back part of the lapel and twist it around) with my right hand (I'm right handed), and then grab on his lower left lapel with my left hand underneath my right forearm, and then pull my left hand toward me while pull my right hand toward the guys throat and also toward my right side going away from me. This is the choke I liked and the one I'm talking about. Unfortunately every time I've tried to apply it while "rolling" in BJJ class I have never gotten it to work - mainly because the other students are better than me.

I've applied it well on my friend I spoke of, with his jacket. I also have applied it well on one of my brothers with his collared buttoned shirt he wore (he thought that technique was awesome too!). In both cases however they allowed me to apply the move and were not resisting.

You say you can choke with the lapel while positioned to your opponent's side or back? In other words, any direction I face you I'm in danger. I look forward to learning those moves eventually.

I think there's more to self-protection than just a fighting art though.

I'm sure you're right on this.

[Tom Yum]

You can do the lapel choke while standing up as well, face to face, from the side or from the rear.

If you've got your grips and your opponent is strong enough to remove your hands from the choke but not break your grip, you can sneak a strike in at the chin with the elbow (or throat w/forearm) while you are still gripping his lapel. This will allow you to transition to something else or make a second attempt.

As soon as you sink the choke in from a stand-up side or rear, a stomp behind the knee will put him down - keeping hold of one of the lapels, you can transition into the rear naked choke.

From the front, a simultaneous but on the shoulders (friendly version) and leg reap will put him down.

[Knuckles&Knees]

most (not all) street punks tend to shove and take full swings, which is why there's plenty of time to evade and react. however, the part about street fighters leaning back, did you mean when they initiate punches, or when someone's thrown a punch at them? i know some people tend to lean a little backwards when shifting sideways to dodge a punch while simultaneously throwing a punch back, but that can be effective too when the other party has leaned forward while punching.. unless you're talking about leaning back when initiating punches, then yeah, they're afraid to get hit.

Yeah, I was speaking of when many of them initiate punches.

When these Latino guys first start throwing punches they seem to be leaned back to some degree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlDvPtj2Nwg

Wild fighting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp20nG8mCeI

These first two young teens throwing blows epitomizes what I'm talking about as to people leaning backwards when they punch. I don't look at videos like this for entertainment but I do show my young nephews videos such as this one as learning tools as *not what to do*: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBMGN-32QjM



Compare those undisciplined sights to this.

Now videos of adult men, who are learned or training in the arts of combat, and have disciplined fighting styles, I can watch for both entertainment and educational purposes. (so long as it is not geared toward permanently harming someone) The second fight is good, both men have done some training in a fighting art you can tell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBMGN-32QjM

baggy pants hanging halfway down butts? total trip hazard + kick-hindrance.

I agree.

[Knuckles&Knees]

You can do the lapel choke while standing up as well, face to face, from the side or from the rear.

This much I realize - that's how I applied it on both my brother and friend.

If you've got your grips and your opponent is strong enough to remove your hands from the throat, you can sneak a strike in at the chin with the elbow (or throat w/forearm) while you are still gripping his lapel. This will allow you to transition to something else or make a second attempt.

As soon as you sink the choke in from a stand-up side or rear, a stomp behind the knee will put him down. From the front, a simultaneous but on the shoulders and leg reap will put him down.

Tom Yum, you are making me that much more dangerous of a man.

[Tom Yum]

I like these

Traditional martial arts still work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7xXWj4X2HU

Traditional MA + street stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96BekJxApsA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU

This guy's not a knockout puncher, but he lands...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6OtvSHYzN4

150-lb amateur MMA fighter (2nd fight) vs a good 200-lb street fighter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dtBAY7T4f0

[Tom Yum]

Tom Yum, you are making me that much more dangerous of a man.

This is stuff that has come from traditional martial arts. You probably won't learn techniques like these in MMA, granted MMA is much better for perfecting timing and execution under pressure...if your base style doesn't adjust to real-time or work against resistance, what good is it?

Strikes to vital points (that you can't do in MMA type sparring) do work.

A public example of this is when BJ Penn 'accidentally' landed a finger to Matt Hughes eye in UFC 63. It sent Matt turning away from Hughes and bent him over and Matt Hughes isn't a fighter known for turning his back! Back in UFC 6 (I think)..Keith Hackney escaped Joe Son's guard, got a side mount and punched him in the balls until Son let him go.

Tieing this all back to your original post about Bruce, he advocated sparring against resisting opponents with rules to develop attributes for fighting, as he did with his students and with other martial artists like Dan Inosanto, TKD master Jhoon Lee, HKD master Ji Han Jae, Judo Gene Labelle and as an amateur boxer once he got to the States.

He also advocated fighting dirty when necessary, which he drilled against the wooden dummy, bags or done carefully against opponents - spear fingers, elbows, stomping, attacking the ears/groin and even biting.

He believed in fighting to test attributes, while training with weapons that could do more harm.

[Knuckles&Knees]

I like these

Traditional martial arts still work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7xXWj4X2HU

Traditional MA + street stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96BekJxApsA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iDlzL7zrNU

This guy's not a knockout puncher, but he lands...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6OtvSHYzN4

Boy that old Asian man was a tough old guy to stand up to all of that.

That last boxer clip I liked more than the Asian boxer clip, because the last boxing clip showed a guy with better skill.

150-lb amateur MMA fighter (2nd fight) vs a good 200-lb street fighter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dtBAY7T4f0

That's the same video I showed at the bottom of my other post. Lol.