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To people who don't seem to believe Bruce Lee is the real deal..

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  • To people who don't seem to believe Bruce Lee is the real deal..

    "Kimura, who was studying judo, heard about Lee and decided to see what the fuss was about. By the time they met, Lee already had five or six informal students, most of them street toughs he met at Edison Technical School on Capitol Hill. They would practice in parks, parking garages, open gyms, anywhere they could find space. Lee didn't charge; they were his friends and he was learning from them how to adapt his style against Western-style fighters. Lee was only 5-foot-7 and 130 pounds, but hit like a heavyweight.

    The first time the two squared off, Lee threw a series of rapid-fire punches, stopping each inches from Kimura's face. Kimura was both intimidated and fascinated. He joined the group, but made it a point never to hang around after the workouts. Lee was too frenetic, too much the teenager for him."



    Bruce had worked with people bigger than him, and supposedly stronger than him. Not saying he could best Ali for sure, but he definitely stood a chance.

    Also, if Bruce was a fake, he wouldn't have been confident enough to do demonstrations where people would just walk up and test him. That was how he met James Demile anyway, a heavyweight boxing champion in the airforce who became his student after he couldn't beat Bruce during one demonstration.

    "James Demile a former student of Bruce and a former heavyweight boxing champ of the US Airforce has commented that, "I wouldn't have put a dime on anyone to beat Bruce Lee in a real confrontation. Bruce Lee was the best fighter I ever saw, even to this very day, and not just pound for pound - but against anyone in a real fight."

    "Temple of the Unknown: I read that Bruce was going to fight Ali and that the fight was set up...is this true and did Bruce ever say that if there was one fighter he wasnt sure he would beat was Ali?

    Thank you,

    James DeMile: Aloha, That was pure Hollywood. Ali would have killed him in the ring. Bruce would have killed him in the street."

    (http://www.cityonfire.com/unknown/in...mile/index.htm)


    Are you saying the heavyweights boxers in the airforce can't fight, when Bruce could beat one of the champions?? Or are you saying James Demile can't fight?

    He held open demonstrations man, if so many of you like to put him down like you're better than him, then maybe some of you can go hold a demonstration.

    Physique:

    Lee's devotion to fitness gave him a body that was admired by many of the top names in bodybuilding community. Joe Weider, the founder of Mr. Olympia, described Bruce's physique as "the most defined body I've ever seen!" Many top body building competitors have indicated Bruce as a major influence on their bodybuilding careers including Flex Wheeler, Shawn Ray, Rachel McLish, Lou Ferrigno, Lee Haney, Lenda Murray and 6 time Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates. Arnold Schwarznegger was also influenced by Bruce, and said of his body,

    "Bruce Lee had a very--I mean a very defined physique. He had very little body fat. I mean, he probably had one of the lowest body fat counts of any athlete. And I think that's why he looked so believable."
    A doctor who knew Lee once claimed that he was "Muscled as a squirrel, and spirited as a horse" and fitter than anyone he had ever seen.

    Lee was known to have collected over 140 books in his lifetime on bodybuilding, weight training, physiology and kinesiology. In order to better train specific muscle groups, he also created several original designs of his own training equipment and had his friend George Lee build them to his specifications.


    Physical feats:

    Lee's phenomenal fitness meant he was capable of performing many exceptional physical feats. The following list are the physical feats that are documented and supported by reliable sources.

    Lee's striking speed from three feet with his hands down by his side reached five hundredths of a second.

    Lee could spring a 235lb opponent 15 feet away with a 1 inch punch.

    Lee's combat movements were at times too fast to be captured on film at 24fps, so many scenes were shot in 32fps to put Lee in slow motion. Normally martial arts films are sped up.

    In a speed demonstration, Lee could snatch a dime off a person's open palm before they could close it, and leave a penny behind.

    Lee could perform push ups using only his thumbs

    Lee would hold an elevated v-sit position for 30 minutes or longer.

    Lee could throw grains of rice up into the air and then catch them in mid-flight using chopsticks.

    Lee performed one-hand push-ups using only the thumb and index finger

    Lee performed 50 reps of one-arm chin-ups.

    From a standing position, Lee could hold a 125lb barbell straight out.

    Lee could break wooden boards six inches thick.

    Lee performed a side kick while training with James Coburn and broke a 150-pound punching bag

    Lee could cause a 300-lb bag to fly towards and thump the ceiling with a sidekick.

    In a move that has been dubbed "Dragon Flag", Lee could perform leg lifts with only his shoulder blades resting on the edge of a bench and suspend his legs and torso perfectly horizontal midair.

    Lee could thrust his fingers through unopened steel cans of Coca-Cola, at a time before cans were made of the softer aluminum metal.

    Lee would use one finger to leave dramatic indentations on pine wood.

  • #2
    Yet he fought no one, and shows of gymnastics are all very well but if you havent fought anyone then you cant claim to be able to fight.

    You may well be able to teach, but you cant claim to fight.

    Most of the people wanted to say good things because being associated with bruce made money. the so called top martial artists that rated him all became his students and made money of him.
    This is the trend overall in JKD and why i cant stand it anymore. its full of bullshit martial artists that think they know it all but cant fight their way out of a paper bag and their students are ass licking wannabes who are too scared to do anything real.

    there are too few good people that have come out of all this and too many who did what bruce did, the ultimate money making scheme in martial arts. Bruce lee's biggest achievement was making everyone believe he was the best without actually ever needing to prove it. in that respect he was a genius. I respect a few of the instructors that are directly under him and a few others here and there like mike and micheal on here seem very down to earth.
    i really hate this subject and im really sick of the bruce lee ass lickers that are too chicken to really do anything real and hide behind their instructors name. "yeah my instructor is xxxx therefore i am good"
    grow up.
    bruce lee is great in your mind and the minds of those that have made a fortune off his principals of self promotion to the point that people actually beleive the bullshit.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ghost View Post
      Yet he fought no one, and shows of gymnastics are all very well but if you havent fought anyone then you cant claim to be able to fight.

      You may well be able to teach, but you cant claim to fight.

      Most of the people wanted to say good things because being associated with bruce made money. the so called top martial artists that rated him all became his students and made money of him.
      This is the trend overall in JKD and why i cant stand it anymore. its full of bullshit martial artists that think they know it all but cant fight their way out of a paper bag and their students are ass licking wannabes who are too scared to do anything real.

      there are too few good people that have come out of all this and too many who did what bruce did, the ultimate money making scheme in martial arts. Bruce lee's biggest achievement was making everyone believe he was the best without actually ever needing to prove it. in that respect he was a genius. I respect a few of the instructors that are directly under him and a few others here and there like mike and micheal on here seem very down to earth.
      i really hate this subject and im really sick of the bruce lee ass lickers that are too chicken to really do anything real and hide behind their instructors name. "yeah my instructor is xxxx therefore i am good"
      grow up.
      bruce lee is great in your mind and the minds of those that have made a fortune off his principals of self promotion to the point that people actually beleive the bullshit.
      Ghost, I like you mate and you know that. Although your caveated mention of Mr Brewer and Myself is a nice touch, it doesn't remove the fact that overall your post is pretty insulting. The people you are referring to are my teachers and my friends in the JKD family, and I don't know where you have this perception of them, but I'm telling you straight its just not true.

      You need to divorce the kind of idiots who worship at the alter of Bruce Lee, from the serious martial artists who form the bulk of the JKD family. All of the genuine instructors (and very competent fighters) in the JKD family do not walk round worshipping Bruce Lee or his legacy. 99% of the time their respects and dedications are always directed at Guro Inosanto, who according to your rationale would the biggest culprit of these accusations, and thats definitely not true.

      Yes, some people in the JKD family make very good money - but they have trained for decades and spent more on their education in the arts than most Doctors and Lawyers. Making money from martial arts is not "selling out". Are they making money on the back of Bruce Lee's legacy? Come on, show me a martial arts system since 1973 that hasn't, either directly or indirectly. Its not Bruce Lee's fault that his memory is so revered, the poor guy is dead.

      Do some people exploit his name, his memory, and use that to hide their complete lack of functional ability? Sure. But I feel your accusations are misplaced, and I don't understand why you would feel like that when I know you have trained with, and speak very highly of, some members of the UK JKD family. I understand and agree that some of these threads and posts can be garbage - but don't take that out on the good guys mate.

      Comment


      • #4
        yeah im good at being an asshole at times, i know.
        There are good JKD instructors out there and i did mention i respect a few of the instructors that came after Bruce, particularly some of those directly under him, i also respect some others that i have met along the way that are fairly unknown.

        Regardless, i do believe JKD to be full of politics(as is every system) and full of crap instructors(as is every system) with some good ones in there. So id rather not pretend everything is peachy.

        I know there are good guys out there mate, i still train with some! i consider myself a JKD student still but one that has become increasingly skeptical over the years with the declining standards.

        I have full respect for the knowledgeable instructors that are trying to move things on.
        I have absolutely no problem with the likes of Vunak, Breen, Inosanto. they have my full respect.

        Be sure, the reason i mention you and mike is because i like what you say, you both talk sense and i can identify with it. And we share more instructors in common than you know of at the moment but thats another story.

        My post was overly harsh as per usual, but to me JKD has some serious issues that need addressing but has its head in the sand.

        JKD, to me, is splitting and has been splitting for a while.The JKD forum on this forum is a great example of the sheer split right down the middle i am talking about. Realists and dreamers, JKD attracts both due to the legend of bruce lee and the money to be made from its attraction and the realists head for the ones that have kept their feet on the ground, ironically they arent the ones that were closest to Lee in many cases.

        Comment


        • #5
          All good points, thats cool. The thing is, I know I can come across as pretty one-sided on here, and I'm not trying to the guardian of JKD. Ask any of my students, they will tell you I have some major issues with the status of JKD, and how those issues get in the way of good, honest training. So I do hear you. I guess what will always get my back up is accusations directed at my teachers and friends, I'm just a protective guy. You didn't mention any by name so thats cool, but your post was pretty generalised.

          And we share more instructors in common than you know of at the moment but thats another story
          Now come on I'm intruiged. You brushing up on your Boxing skills? Or do we share some Thai lineage? Drop me a pm...

          Comment


          • #6
            both mate
            haha, ill just say im very familiar with Finchley boxing club, the people that work from there and the Hoxton academy.

            On topic though i dont think any of your instructors will fall into this category as i dont think you will bother with the type i mean, though obviously i dont know exactly who you have trained with and im not going to name names though you probably guess one im less than impressed with from another thread on here...lol anyway......

            Comment


            • #7
              Cool! I bet I know who you are, but hey - your secret identity is safe with me

              My training has crossed the divide of JKD, and therefore I understand your concerns on a number of factions, and individuals. The point I would like to leave you with is that, in my opinion, they are in the minority.

              OK, our work here is done

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              • #8
                Hey what is this JKD "Concepts"? It's new to me but I keep hearing more and more people use that name. I even heard a guy on The Utimate figher describe his system as JKD concepts. What is it? Sorry if I am off topic.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Long version or short version?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Michael Wright View Post
                    Long version or short version?
                    Short version. With me, It's always the short version. LOL

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OK sir, very short version:

                      Many people feel that JKD is the physical art that Bruce Lee taught, therefore they just say that they train in JKD. Guro Inosanto's view is that the physical art taught during his era of study was Jun Fan Gung Fu, and that JKD was Bruce Lee's personal philosophy and expression of the martial arts. Therefore, Guro has always maintained that you can't "do" JKD, because you aren't Bruce Lee, but you can apply the "concepts" of what he taught to your personal martial arts journey.

                      Therefore, when people say they do JKD "Concepts", they typically crosstrain in a range of arts (Jun Fan Gung Fu, Kali, Thai, BJJ etc) but they approach the study of these arts according to the "concepts" of JKD.

                      That is as short as I can make it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The two major divisions are between “Concepts” and “Original.” “Original” is advocated by the “Nucleolus of JKD” and “Concepts” is advocated primarily by the students of Sifu Danny Inosanto. The concepts group is much larger and I dare say that most posters on this forum are concepts people. Concepts believe that JKD is about finding what is best and using that. Institutionally it has focused on Kali and Ju Jitsu, but it is not limited to those arts.

                        If you read Sifu Bruce’s “Tao of Jeet Kune Do” you will not find many techniques there that are used in a concepts class, but they do follow the spirit of his teachings.

                        The Nucleolus on the other hand believes that JKD should be limited to the techniques that Sifu Bruce himself used and taught. They do not add other techniques.

                        There is another group, which I belong to, and which has no organization. We practice JKD as it was taught by Sifu Bruce and Sifu James at the Oakland School, but our art is not stagnant. It is in perpetual development to address contemporary changes in the threat environment, it also adapts to individual students and their needs and ability.

                        As Michael Wright knows from another thread, I have stopped (am trying to stop) using the name JKD for this art form because that name is usually used to describe the two other groups. We call our art “The Way of the Intercepting fist.” This is just an English translation of the words “Jeet Kune Do.” But it helps differentiate what we do. I think this is what BL intended, that is, for the art to continue to evolve as a self contained system.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          man, you must either be blind or can't read properly. what do you mean "he fought no one"?????

                          anyway, i'm too far away from anything that's related to jkd, it's money-making opportunities or whatnot to be saying it to boost any benefits for myself. also, bruce is dead. lick his ass? how to?? i have none of bruce's memorabilia, both online or offline. heck, i don't even have a t-shirt with his name or face printed on! worship? i just happened to have an opinion that i believe in!

                          plus, bruce lee's fighting ability, and jkd, are all separate issues. you hate the politics in jkd (as do i) and how it's being twisted around (i hate that too), but that's nothing to do with bruce lee's ability!

                          anyway, if you happen to be in my town, then by all means, look me up. we can spar, fight, whatever. pm me anytime to talk or discuss. and no, i'm not using any instructor's name. did i mention any instructor at all???

                          plus, there's nothing to gain for many of the people who're saying good stuff about bruce's fighting abilities. taky isn't making a profit, and the other instructors running their own schools now did mention stuff about how they feel now that some of what bruce said wasn't exactly right (by them), but still maintained he could fight.

                          ah, all you can resort to is name-calling. you can't prove he can't fight, but there's more than enough evidence to say he can. people have different points of views. you hate bruce lee, think that he can't fight, but there are many who believe that he can. and just because those of us believe he can fight, we become chickens, and are too scared to do anything real, or wannabes? just for having a different opinion from you, "master"??

                          you can dislike bruce lee, not believe that he could fight, but you need not stop others from believing. and neither is there a need to insult, put down, or call names just because others have their own views.

                          if you can hold a demonstration, let people come up to test you and best them, become something of a master yourself, then maybe you can have a fraction of a right to put somebody else's skill and ability down. and even the real masters don't do that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bruce Lee could fight according to those who knew him well, trained alot with him and witnessed his challenge matches. He was probably a good fighter - notorious for his timing, speed and power.

                            Was he an awesome fighter? We'll never know but he was a pioneer of a martial artist - revitalizing the cross-training concept, freedom from style and the need for conditioning in the martial arts.
                            Last edited by Tom Yum; 11-04-2007, 03:13 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Ghost,

                              I agree with a lot of what you had to say and understand your frustration with the politics in JKD. However, there is just as much politics in other systems... BJJ being one of them.

                              I hate the fact that there is politics in JKD and there always seems to be some petty arguments going on. My suggestion to you is simple....

                              You make the stand and let people see what JKD is suppose to be about by teaching them the right way... without the politics and without all the BS.

                              I am a JKD guy although I have training in Boxing, Muay Thai, FMA and different grappling arts. One of my JKD instructors was Sifu Larry Hartsell and he would always say... "if everyone would just give credit to the person that trained them then there would be no politics in JKD today." I make it a point to do that all the time.

                              Just my take it on it guy...

                              Tim

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