Aliveness

[jbkenpo]

Recently had a chance to watch Matt Thornton's video on JKD and check out his concepts of "Aliveness". And the difference between alive drills vs dead drills.

How many here would say they practice, "aliveness". It seems a lot like Vunak's progression theory. Working your way up to full on "put on the pads" and see if it works drills.

Any thoughts?

jb

[dan downard]

I believe this refers to the forms done in most traditional martial arts.If you are doing Jits,Wrestling,Boxing,Judo or any MA that does not take up time with Katas you are training with Aliveness.
It's nothing new or progressive.

[Evilution]

I train with aliveness, but so do most athletes outside martial arts. It just means to train against a resisting opponent, with real timing, no pattern. You take a part of the fight and isolate it so you can work on it without getting overwhelmed or straight killed. As opposed to creating something that it isn't close to a fight and practicing it in order to get better at fighting.

Aliveness is just staying true to combat, simple as that.

[jbkenpo]

Agreed...

I would agree that it's not earth shattering, but from a martial arts perspective it does raise the point, "is what your doing realistic?" and that's a question that has only recently been asked.

Other "sports" or physical activities are viseral so the "hands on is built in", but in many of the arts people spend a majority of the time beating the hell of the air. So I though it something worth mentioning.

My next question is "ok, you train with aliveness or hands on, What is the process you use? and the theory behind it?"

Or do you just say," we train hard here and that's all ya need to know".

I personally see a lot of value in mixing it up to see what works and doesn't, what factors can change the complection of an altercation, etc...

[dan downard]

That is where competition comes in.If you were to practice full contact without gloves or rules everyday,you wouldnt last long.
You may be able to up the training level to open hands and incorporate all ranges into your training.But to test what you are doing needs to be done in a full out competition.Having a sub grappling tourny avery four or five months isnt it either.That is why we have competition teams and instructors who actually compete on a regular baisis.Sure ,you can teach your students the high percentage moves.But they need to test it for themselves.As do the instructors also.
Anyone can teach,but to really be good you have to compete.Not just once or twice in your career.This is why I would never go out and open a school of my own.I dont compete and I never have.
The guys who are on the top of the heap train with others who actually get in the ring.Example.Kevin Randalman trains with Mark Coleman.Couture trains with other world class wrestlers.
Most of the guys who are really good train with people who actually compete.How long do you think one of these guys would train under someone that doesnt compete?Not long.They pass that guys skill levels and then start teaching them.Mr.Thornton is a good example.Randy may have learned a few things from him .But, I assure you that Randy has shown him more than he has gotten. Why?Because Randy actually competes and trains with guys who do.I am pretty sure it was Rorian that started the ground fighting movement in America,he was the one who said(if you cant fight on the ground you cant fight).We are seeing Americans get Blackbelts in BJJ.But we dont see many of them in a NHB fight.They can teach you what technique they know.But they cant teach you how to fight.You have to learn that in the ring.Remember,these are just my opinions.Everyone has their own.

[J.K.]

"is what your doing realistic?"


This is probably the most important question a Martail Artist could ask him/her self. If its not realistic/practical why waiste your time. If you find your martials training is nothing but kata and individual drills - its time you've asked yourself:

"is what your doing realistic?"

Be smart when training - don't get caught up in esoterics - stay in reality. Don't waiste your time trying to discover magic moves. If your not gearing up and sparring - your leaving out a key element to your training.

[soho]

Granted it's nothing new in the sports world. However in the martial arts world tons of people still don't get the idea of Aliveness. Ever check out a knife class where flow drills are done the whole time, or a kickboxing class where everyone stands still and hits the pads. Or a Jits class where you do a bunch techniques but don't wrestle. Thornton is right when he says a lot of people talk about aliveness but just don't get it.

Of course realistic training is nothing new, but I haven't heard anyone explain it as well as Thornton does with the term "Aliveness." It makes it easy to talk about training. Example... the other day a friend of mine went to a knife-fighting seminar. Afterwards I asked him if there was any "aliveness." The answer was "No"

[rick_d]

on Matt

Hi guys. I have been at the Beaverton and Portland SBG's for almost three Years now, and funny thing is I still see Matt and Randy training together all the time.
Although I am sure that Matt would agree that Randy has shown him more then he has shown Randy. in fact I have heard him say this himself at the last camp. I am also sure Randy would tell you Matt showed him more. Thats because they are both class acts.
In regards teaching NHB. A good athlete looks for a Coach or cornerman who can help him win. Apparently both Couture and Henderson feel those guys can be found at the SBG. Last I checked Nathen Quarry was working the corner of Couture for the Rizzo fight, and both Robert and Matt have been there before as well. And Dan Henderson regularly takes Robert, SBG VP, to Japan as his cornermen. No better reccomendations then that. Robert is an AWSUM coach, and all the NHB guys I know, Tanner, Lindland, Couture, Henderson, speak highly of his teaching and the skill of the SBG guys.
Rigan Machado has not fought NHB either, however, all the wrestlers I know that are fighting pro visit and train at the Machado school all the time. If you know your stuff, you know your stuff. You cant B.S. fighters like Couture, Henderson, and Kerr.
In all the time I have known Matt I have never seen him claim to have invented anything knew. He says he just chooses to emphasize alive training because he feels thats whats needed most. I think he is right. If you ever get a chance to come train here in Oregon, or at one of his seminars I am sure you guys will have a great time. He is actually a very humble, nice guy. and also really, really good!

[dan downard]

Good post Rick.As I stated ,we all see things differently and sometime dont see eye to eye.We are just talking here.But,I assure you that I consider both Matt and Robert as very good instructors.As are most of the SBG instructors.

[jbkenpo]

That's the point I wanted to get across. The information is there, but people are still tied into the old ways or they just don't know any better. It's definitely an eye opening and humbling experience when you get on the mat and play.

jb

Originally posted by soho
Granted it's nothing new in the sports world. However in the martial arts world tons of people still don't get the idea of Aliveness. Ever check out a knife class where flow drills are done the whole time, or a kickboxing class where everyone stands still and hits the pads. Or a Jits class where you do a bunch techniques but don't wrestle. Thornton is right when he says a lot of people talk about aliveness but just don't get it.

Of course realistic training is nothing new, but I haven't heard anyone explain it as well as Thornton does with the term "Aliveness." It makes it easy to talk about training. Example... the other day a friend of mine went to a knife-fighting seminar. Afterwards I asked him if there was any "aliveness." The answer was "No"

[MercuryTurrent]

Do... or donnot. there is no try

one of the most important things about aliveness is to become desensitized to it.

do you really wanna walk into a fight where you are still jumpy and unsure about your abilities? its important in a fight to feel seasoned, and ready for things you haven't exactly practiced for.