Knee vulnerability

[auto]

Hi Brokenmace,

The reason the guy didn't go down right away was-I figured- either his extreme size(this guy was huge-about 6'6"-6'7" and 260 to 280 pounds) or the fact that I didn't get a frontal shot on the throat. I hit the side of his thoat--his hands moved from his knee upward to grab his throat--he crouched over forward like he was going down, that's when I hit him in the base of the skull. I wasn't sure if he was going to stay down so I put in one more blow-just in case. I learned later on that a blow like that can shock the cerebellum and kill a man- thank God that didn't happen.

[Brokenmace]

Yes, that could've been bad. You'd've seen more than three days in jail for that. Still, he deserved it. I can't stand angry drunks.

BTW, do you have any routines that speed up the lifting of your knee during a kick? I've been doing frog hops to speed up my foot snap, but I think I give it away when I lift my knee too slowly. And I'm not even retracting the leg!

Thanks.

[Guest]

Perhaps using ankle weights whilst repeating that phase of the kick may help.

[Sean J]

May also contribute to damaging your own knee.

At least I would not do it.


I don't see much point in attacking bent knees with a sidekick. There is not much chance of really causing much pain, because nobody stands with a bent knee without a reason. In that case I'd rather attack the muscle on the inside of the thigh with a round-kick. Does not necessarily do much damage that you would bother your phycision with, but it after taking a hit there one will have severe trouble moving around.

Sean

[Guest]

I didn't mean practice the full kick with the ankle weights on, merely to practice the phase of the kick that Brokenmace was concerned with, the lifting of the knee initially.

This wouldn't damae the knee at all, as it would remain bent, and the work would be done by the hip flexors and, to a lesser extent, the abs.

[Brokenmace]

Thanks, Bri Thai. Except for very light "aerobasize" style weights, I wouldn't do a full kick with weights on (save for holding them in my hands -- helps endurance).

I'm still trying to break the habit of skipping forward on my O'ou Tek. I can get great power just with my hip and turning my supporting foot, but everyone sees it coming because my supporting foot skips forward a little.

Sean J, I still think a sidekick to the bent knee would hurt if you are wearing shoes (which is the way I train). I can't see it feeling like a love tap. And why wouldn't a sore knee slow a man down, just like a nerve strike to the thigh? I've been roundhoused in the knee, which hurt. And while I use the point of my knee to block roundhouses, I can't see it taking a sidekick so well . . .

[Guest]

I've been looking into the Close Quarter Combat methods from old style military training. They have a version of side kick to the knee which then scrapes down the shin and stamps on the instep. Ouch!

This may occasionally finish a fight but, even if it does not it sets you into punching range to follow up with strikes to the head etc.

I like the low roundhouse, and can kick quite hard. But I do not toughen my shins (beyond kicking the bag) and do wonder what will happen if I go shin to shin with someone at full power.

I, for one, am going to do further research and training into the low side kick as a self defence technique. To quote these guys from the Close Combat movement "look at the striking targets prohibited by the rules, and strike them".

[Brokenmace]

Oh, yeah!

At my kwoon some folks call shin-scraping kicks "chicken kicks", because we use it off the front kick and scrape down with the sole of the shoe. It reminds some folks of how birds fight. It's wonderful with jagged-profile treads.

You need to be relatively quick to pull off the shin scrape from a sidekick, unless you've already hurt him with the innitial strike. Was that book you were looking at one by Applegate? I like his defenses against folks kicking you on the ground.

[auto]

Hi Mace

I would practice snapping up the knee as quickly as possible over and over, and then progress to snapping the knee up and extending outward at the same time. The speed comes from the foot already moving forward as the knee is coming up(look at yourself in a mirror).I also used a 'universal machine' . I made a special loop on the bottom cable to put my ankle through. Then I would do straight legged leg lifts while standing. Some sets were with heavy weights to develop strength and then some with very light resistance while trying to 'burst' the leg forward and upward.I Also did a lot of leg lifts laying down--hyperextentions and also abdominal work. The hip flexors, abdomin, and back muscles play a large part in kicking quickly so that's what I worked on. I believe the thing that help my speed the most though was a simple mirror. I would watch myself while kicking and hitting trying to catch mistakes such as pulling the foot back before kicking instead of lifting it up and out to the target or tensing up before punching or jabbing etc.-finding the most direct route to my target.
However, the biggest attribute to speed is a persons own physical ability. Not everyone can be quick or fast--you can develop only to a certain point which is limited to synapse response of the individual person and the speed at which the "fast twitch fibers" of the muscles can contract. Just keep practicing lifting that leg as quickly as possible--even when walking around or even while sitting. You don't really need a universal machine either. Go to a local hardware store and purchase some pulleys and rope and set up your own leg workout device. This may not be the info you wanted but at least it's a start

[Brokenmace]

Thanks! I'll keep all that in mind. I knew there was a reason Sifu was on us about leg lifts . . .

[Sean J]

Originally posted by Brokenmace
...Sean J, I still think a sidekick to the bent knee would hurt if you are wearing shoes (which is the way I train). I can't see it feeling like a love tap. And why wouldn't a sore knee slow a man down, just like a nerve strike to the thigh? I've been roundhoused in the knee, which hurt...

The point is, somebody standing there with a bent knee just does not stand that way to statically take the full impact of a side kick. He stands there with a bent knee to have lots of space to give way with in time and slide out of range with that leg, and even if he gets hit there the kick has to penetrate at least 30 cm after impact before hurting the knee-joint.

Sean

[aseepish]

Trapping terminology

[Instinctively I ducked under the swing and trapped his punching arm( actually he pinned his own arm against the other because he didn't let go of mine and I trapped it there with the held arm). [/B][/QUOTE]

Lovely! In Wing Chun we call this one the "stupid trap". Just thought I'd share.

T.