Do you guys have JKD confused? a pholosophy or an art?

[crazyjoe380]

Instead of opposing force by force, the Jeet Kune Do practitioner completes his opponent's movement by "accepting" his flow of energy as he aims it, and defeats him by borrowing his own force. In order to reconcile oneself to the changing movements of the opponent, the Jeet Kune Do practitioner should first of all understand the true meaning of Yin/Yang. The basic structure of Jeet Kune Do.

-BRUCE LEE

JEET KUNE DO: "Way of the Intercepting Fist"

How the hell do you intercept a fist? can jkd practioners say that if a boxer throws a punch.. you will intercept with your feet before the punch hits you??


i know it's a meaning or way of life but it's also a style and that's what i think isn't affective..


i dont care about the ying and the yang.. what about gang bang?
lol.. just playing..

seriously ..does anyone know what i'm trying to say about this?
i'm not saying nothing about the beliefs.. i'm talking about the jkd style itself because he had deminstrations..

like i said it was "CLAIMED TO BE A STYLE" in the ufc and tank abbott "street fighter" Smashed him....

is it an affective style....

GUNG FU??? it all comes down to GUNG FU... Rearranged into addaption...

[Brokenmace]

How the hell do you intercept a fist? can jkd practioners say that if a boxer throws a punch.. you will intercept with your feet before the punch hits you??

Well, that's just silly. This only happens if you are on the ground and your enemy is still standing. Even then it is more likely that you will attack below his waist rather than his hands, unless he has a weapon. Weapons change things a bit . . .

How the hell do you intercept a fist? can jkd practioners say that if a boxer throws a punch.. you will intercept with your feet before the punch hits you??

Well, it's obvious you don't practice Jun Fan. An interception is anything -- anything at all -- that stops the motion or mental intent of the opponent. "Beating someone to the punch" is the ideal in JKD. It is interception through the realization of intent. Boxers do this quite often, when they are good. Also, you can intercept someone by causing their focus to shift to another mode of combat (eg. kicking the shin just as they punch). A shoulder stop is also an interception, as well as destructions and anything that destroys anyt of the Three Legs (sight, mobility, respiration).

Interception isn't new or solely the provence of JKD. JKD was just the first ethos to codify the principle. After all, that is what JKD is, a goal for principles. In martial arts, those principles are codified in Jun Fan, but they do not stop there. This is why the UFC participant should not have said he was using "JKD" style. JKD is not a style. Styles are closed ways of fighting. JKD is a way of thinking about fighting. It is found in the performance and cannot be limited to what one is taught.

Anyone who actively seeks to overcome limitations and adapt to his surroundings and challenges is practicing JKD. If I continually try to block you and you keep hitting me, and I never change my tactics, this is not JKD. If a fancy Jun Fan technique fails to work during combat, you must either discard it or change your approach to employing it (eg. by using draws, fakes, etc.).

The key must fit the lock. As long as it does, you are practicing JKD.

[crazyjoe380]

interesting..

[Brokenmace]

Glad you think so. Hope I didn't come across as snide . . .

BTW, to go further with the key/lock metaphor, Jun Fan exists to teach you how to be a locksmith.

However, locksmiths don't stop learning when they leave school . . .

[terry]

Brokenmace espouses an expansive view of the philosophy of JKD. You can get into this mode in almost any taoist discipline. Consider the following conversation taken from the art of jazz (lot of taoists in that as it turns out):

Keith Jarrett: "They've made jazz into a restrive noun. I want it to be a liberating verb."

Miles Davis: "I don't even like the word 'jazz'. I just play."

Read Sigung Lee's words about doing away with the name Jeet Kune Do. Sound familiar?

The point is that studying a taoist art will take you into a lot of philosophy and reflection. You study the tao and feel a connection with the Tao. It's built into the process. But, in my view, the final stage is simplicity. It's just doing it. Forget the rest. Perhaps it is a Zen influence, but I did away with the name of JKD more than 10 years ago. Now, my lessons in Chinese philosophy start with learning the word for 'ouch'.

Consider the phrase:

Learn the form; (you can substitute the word 'philosophy' for 'form')
Master the form;
Dissolve the form;
Forget the form;
Repose in the void.

In other words, you may wind up having a philosophical perspective as clear and simple as crazyjoe380, except perhaps for a slightly better set of table manners (*grin*). But in the end it is about function, simplicity and doin' it. I'm tellin' ya, if you walk into a master level jazz piano class or work with a master Japanese calligrapher they'll understand this. It is the martial artists who will scratch their heads...

Terry

[Brokenmace]

I'm not arguing for complexity. I am simply responding to Crazyjoe's confusion over the ideal of JKD. I use the term "JKD", because we are discussing a specific process, and words define such things. To call it "that thingy" wouldn't change anything.

Even using larger metaphors and quotations from the Tao of JKD won't change anything. It is what it is.

He asked about interception and style.

As long as the goal is liberation from tradition and obsticles in order to express oneself honestly, you are practicing JKD.

I don't find this understanding complex at all. Not that I claim to be some sort of master . . .

[terry]

Well, interception is easy: land the punch before he does.

[Brokenmace]

My point exactly...

[Alex]

Intercepting Fist

A little point that hasn't been made yet. When written in Chinese, the symbol for combat/fighting is the same as the symbol for fist, so when translated, Jeet Kune Do could be 'intercepting combat' or 'intercepting fist'. The term fist is what stuck. When once asked what Jeet Kune Do was, Bruce replied "the way of the intercepting fist, or foot, or what have you..."

As for the orginal comment about 'intercepting a boxer's punch': While I don't know why this seemed ridiculous to Crazyjoe, you have to keep in mind that interception can occur at different stages. You can intercept the intention, at the moment you first notice movement, as your opponent extends their tool, etc.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

The art of "intercepting" can actually be in ways one might not think about. If we are talking about "intercepting" a strike then we are also talking about a high level of speed, intuition, timing, and reflex. It's quite hard to simply "intercept" someone you don't know the rhythm of, etc. However it can be done.

Here is my opinion on the subject. It may be controversial, who knows?

To me, the real "intercepting fist" is the fist that strikes first when an assault is unavoidable. The pre-emptive strike, pre-fight tactics, semantics, follow through in a self-defense situation is, to me, the epitome of what the "intercepting fist" should be about.

This doesn't mean simply going around and suckerpunching people, but it does mean that in a REAL self-defense situation, you intercept the person's attack by first intercepting the cues and intent the assaulter gives you.

For instance,
Someone comes up into your face and pushes you hard. He cusses, gets nose to nose with you, you can smell his breath, he's moving you into a corner.....

You put your palms up "passively" in a manner that seems to say "Look, I don't want any trouble...I don't want to fight, please."

The assailant doesn't quit, and his anger is rising. His face changes, and he seems to simply stare through you.... (getting ready for a sucker punch of his own.)

Suddenly, you headbutt the assailant in the face before he has time to set up his own attack. You follow through immediately with hard punches, palm heels, elbows, ....... the shock is so immediate that the attacker loses footing, slips, and falls hard onto the ground.

Now that he is momentarily no longer a legal threat, you get the hell out of dodge, and do it quickly. You jump in your car, make sure no one's following you, and high tail it out of there.....


Now.... that guy could have been a better fighter than you. You'll never know. You never gave him the chance to find out.
That is the true "art" of "interception." You intercept his emotional state. You intercept his intention. That's real self-defense.
All of it from the pre-fight semantics to the tactics he uses, to the judgment call of when to launch that first strike......

That to me is the realistic way of intercepting.

Ryu

[Brokenmace]

I doubt there's much contraversy here. That was what I meant about emotional intent.

Interception is practiced by the Secret Service everyday. Setting up a perimeter around the President is a form of interception.

There are many levels of interception. I believe it is the highest form of self-defense. Whether you agree with George W. Bush or not, he is following the principle of interception, in his own mind, in dealing with Iraq.

Deterance is also a form of interception. It is one of the primary reasons for the initial formation of urban gangs. After all, if you have a problem with one guy, do you really want a problem with all fifteen of his buddies?

[Ryu (JKD?)]

good post

absolutely agree with that.

Ryu

[crazyjoe380]

RYU... ok i think i get the emotion thing...


cause i seen a video where bruce is showing a man that he can kick his knee before he strikes bruce...

seening the man frustrated and senses some emotion.. he punches again ...

"i sensed your emotion. you were goning to use your jab"

something like that.. it was interesting..


I WISH THERE WAS A SCHOOL IN MY AREA WHERE ALL MARTIAL ARTS ARE TOUGHT IN ONE PLACE AND NOT TOO EXPENSIVE..