Lee,Lewis,NHB,and other topics

[flashpoint]

I would tend to agree that Lewis is opinionated,arrogant,and also highly intellectual.His contributions to martial arts as a discipline exceed those of Bruce Lee.Of course,Lee is better known to non-martial artisits.
However,whether or not you hate Lewis or whether or not Lee could have beaten Joe,isn't it time to move beyond all of this?Jeet Kune Do and all other pre-1993 martial arts have been superseded by the UFC and other NHB events.True,the UFC is not an all-out street fight,but if you added Bil Jee, Jao Sao and Dim mak techniques to the arsenal of boxing,wrestling,muay thai,and jujitsu that makes up the HYBRID STYLE,would that be it?How many more ways are there to move the human body?Like scholastic wrestling and freestyle judo,NHB is a laboratory method art---everything must work,or it is relegated to history.NHB guys do many of the things that Lee recommended--training in all 4 ranges,working on equipment,using barbells for strength training,doing all-out live sparing,etc.The only major difference is that JKD was still somewhat Wing Chun oreinted,while the new hybrid style is more Thai oriented.Upright fighters cannot defend well against grapplers who change levels quickly,or aginast really good leg kickers.Is it not time to drop the endless debate over what is Jeet Kune,what is not Jeet Kune,and whether or not Bruce Lee could kill an elephant?Who cares about Jun Fan or JKD anyways? We know have a fairly clear picture of combat truth,and we have a lab to test all theories.UFC debuted 10 years ago,and that sport has been the proving ground.Is it not time for reasonable men to leave the past behind?

[ryanhall]

Is it not time for reasonable men to leave the past behind?

Odd words for someone who just resurrected a tired debate.

His contributions to martial arts as a discipline exceed those of Bruce Lee.Of course,Lee is better known to non-martial artisits.

Actually, no single man or woman has impacted the martial arts as a whole more than Bruce Lee. Just because he is known to non-martial artists does not take away from his credibility.

[Thai Bri]

I echo ryan hall. Not this again.

And I am by no means a big Bruce Lee fan. But he is the biggest thing the martial arts have ever produced to the world, easily.

Not bad for such a small man.

[Szczepankiewicz]

no single man or woman has impacted the martial arts as a whole more than Bruce Lee.

That is trite bollocks!

Mr. Nipplesworth has affected my personal martial arts training more than any other woman I have ever known!



Spanky

[ryanhall]

I thought he just impacted your lifestyle choice? I guess his appeal to you is holistic

[Szczepankiewicz]

You can say that again!

Unless you go Brit,
you don't know shit!

[Ryu (JKD?)]

[kengar]

We know have a fairly clear picture of combat truth,and we have a lab to test all theories.UFC debuted 10 years ago,and that sport has been the proving ground

Although the UFC is close to real as a fight, it is not. These are pre-arranged matches, with rules, gloves, a controlled enviroment, a ref, a judge, a flat soft mat, nice lighting, a Doc to check your cuts, etc....
A fight, combat, you are out with your wife walking down the street talking about having a child and some criminal attacks you with/without a weapon. You have to go from 0 - 60 in a second all while trying to figure out what the hell just happened and if your wife is safe or did she get hit. You both are in a scuffle and trip over the curb and take a hard fall and crack your skull on the sidewalk, now you notice there's a knife. The people on the street are just as scared and can only stand by and scream "What do we do?".

Could the sutff in the UFC work in the street? Yes.

Is the UFC the street? No.

[swan104]

Re: Lee,Lewis,NHB,and other topics

I wasn't going to reply to this post at all but I couldn't resist! It sounds like what you are saying is that everyone should pack in their "pre-1993" arts and train in MT along with a grappling art? I love watching MMA tournaments, and have a lot of respect for the people that train and compete in them. However, it's naive to say that anything that was taught prior to 1993 is useless.


Why can't a NHB combatant use a jao sao? All you are doing is changing your line of attack once there is an engagement?

[Great Sage]

Exactly, it's time YOU stop beating a dead horse...

I tend to agree with Ryan — Bruce is by far the most influental martial artist that ever lived. I would also rank Ed Parker up there somewhere as well. To many people today, Royce Gracie has made a great impact too.

That said, the UFC and other NHB tournaments are not training grounds for proving which techniques will work on the streets. They're sports, and that's just the way it is... Real fights don't end when someone taps out.

[Thai Bri]

Ed who?

Sure, I know who he is, but a great many outside of America don't. And a great many inside America don't too. Ed brought Bruce to the attention of America. That hardly puts him in the same league.

[flashpoint]

response

I think the tone of this thread is indicative of the futility of the debate.The reality,to me,is that no one is going to go beyond Bruce Lee or beyond the traditional arts if one is hung up on the hero-worship of dead men.Lewis himself,who I do not idolize but whom I do respect, made a statement to the effect that martial arts is unlike military combat in that everyone in martial arts tend to get stuck doing a particular thing and then fails to improve.The Monitor and the Virginia were the cutting edge of naval technology in the Civil War,but no one particularly wants to use them in the modern world.Look at the advances in technology even since the first Persian Gulf war.
Bruce himself was quite egotistical,quite unlike the Taoist priests and Zen/Ch'an masters he emulated.But even Bruce,were he able to know what the modern martial arts world is about, who praise those who say," screw Bruce Lee,let's do our own thing."

The taoist and the zenist are supposed to be above the mere play of opinions anyway: observe without judgment,be not for or against.
Of course,the UFC is not the street,but it does indicate how realistic certian techniques are(or are not).It is not the street,but it does simulate real combat TO AN EXTENT in a sort of laboratory.
A effort to formulate new techniques and strategies begins there.
Jeet KUne Do is like a boat--once you are on the other side of the river,you need not carry it on your back.
HAPPY TRAINING,AND FARWELL