JKD technique discussion

[Skull X22]

My Kicks

My favorite kicks are:

1. Roundhouse Kick (Damage:*** Technique:** Speed:****)
2. Low Thai Shinbone Kicks (Damage:****Technique:*Speed:****)
3. High Savate Kicks (Damage:** Technique:*** Speed:***)

[akja]

Originally posted by NWPTrainer
INteresting takes on the clinch guys. I train predominantly to fight in the clinch, because I feel it is the safest platform from which to attack at close range, and the facts say most street assaults will happen here. IN the clinch, not only can I tie up his weapons, reducing his ability to strike and attack effectively, if I can attain a dominant body position (think collar and elbow, over-under, or head control), I can still attack with relatively unimpeded use of my weapons. This can range from striking weapons to gross motor skill restraints to takedowns and throws. In a DBP in the clinch, I can access my edged weapon, OC spray, or my sidearm more effectively as well. If I have tied the guy up in a clinch, and have hit him a couple times, I can use the DBP to create space, or I can use the leverage provided to control his mobility in order to clear one side of my body to access the weapons.

As for closing to the clinch...I think you guys are overestimating the value of some of the countertechniques. I started out as a purely free-movement, stand up fighter. Boxing and MT. In the service, I used to spar and train against HS and collegiate wreslters. At 6'1" 200 pounds, I'm not a small guy, but most of the techniqes you have mentioned are not extremely effetive as methods to stop a determined rush to the clinch.
I am not gonna jsut duck my head and charge in. I'm gonna be juking and jiving as I caome in, and I'm gonna be attacking you and your limbs as I close. I don;t mean some fancy gunting crap, I mean, you throw a punch, I am gonna be hacking the crap outa those arms as I close with you. Even if you do manage to get a shot to actually connect, the chances are pretty good, that ost of the energy of the blow is gonna be shed due to my movement.

I am NOT a particularly great fighter. Good? Yes. Expereinced? Yes. Great? No. But I can still get inside, even against technically better fighters. Look at the dynamics of even boxing....Two guys are in the ring. The better boxer starts winning. What does the loser (the worse boxer!) do? He closes and clinches.

I teach even small women students to seek the clinch. Get inside, wherre she can latch on to the larger assailant and use her bodyweight as a weapon, as well as her strikes. BUt, then, I'm more interested in hurting the bad guy and putting him down NOW than I am in the back and forth sporting aspects.
Just some thoughts.

RLTW

That almost sounded like me talking to my students. I tell my guys (1 who was trained by an old Thai fighter from Thailand) that anybody can throw blows and on any day anyone can be hit. If a "boxer" is coming at me, I'll slam him on his head and if a "wrestler" is coming at me, I'll make him stand up and fight. I tell them that you can expect to get hit. Thats a fight. But when I'm coming in, I'll probably get hit with a glancing blow because of the way I fight.

Thats what working the clinch heavily along with my other arts enables me to do. Control the fight and make him fight my fight.

I also tell my students with the MMA fighters are coming up younger and younger that if they don't "specialize" in some aspects of their training then they can't expect to be the best because theres millions out there training the same way(Thai, BJJ, Boxing. MMA...) with the same goal.

I've found my niche and I train them to find theirs.

[JKDilla]

Jamming/Sprawling against a charging opponent, combined with footwork for balance, angling/zoning and balance for striking is best way I've used to avoid clinch.

Footwork/balance is reason I don't like to kick or knee against a charger.

Of course, if a guy is intent on closing, he's probably willing to eat shots to clinch. Nothing is 100%. You're right about that.

Akja asked how to prevent rusher from clinching. I personally don't mind fighting in the clinch. it's nice however to sometimes only use stand-up in sparring and try avoid clinch and ground as much as possible. Just to practice for the sake of practicing a situation where you didn't want to get locked up or go to ground.

[JKDfreak]

I remember when I was still a child with no real experience, I fought against a wrestler.Firstly I tried to beat him up with kicks ,then punches,but he was coming at me taking the shot,and it seemed that he felt nothing.He then grabbed me,throwed me and it was over.I learned much from this fight:
-you must have a base on which you can work on.I call it the base,or basement,because you will build your entire strategy,fight on this base.if you have only a striking base,the "building" will collapse (same for grappling). You must have striking and grappling elements in your base,so that you have less chance to collapse.

-Always use Forward motion/pressure
-use your opponent momentum and use it against him,as well as attack his structure and footwork.
This is the main things I learned from it.So now I teach grappling as an important element of my training.I also like to develop ones attribute in a particular fashion as well as working on one weaknesses.

[NuffSpeed]

I disagree about cut kicks not working to stop someone trying to close the range to clinch, if you have decent footwork and range, your opponent moves forward on you coming into your range at all, your cuttin that knee(in the street ) a wrestler is rarely going to know how to check(shinblock) your kick. and if he does, quickly throw another one to his body or head(or even another lowline). Back to dancin, waiting for his next advance If your in boxing range, thats another story.

[nogard1980]

what I have learned so far about people charging straight in is to MOVE!!. Diagonal off, change the line, don't just stay on the damn rail road track when the trains coming.

[akja]

Originally posted by nogard1980
what I have learned so far about people charging straight in is to MOVE!!. Diagonal off, change the line, don't just stay on the damn rail road track when the trains coming.

If someones charging I'm natuarally going to sprawl my legs while I "feel" how far he is going to take his attack, either all the way to the ground (with me sprawling) or they will adjust to my sprawl and attemt to re-direct their attack.

If they adjust to my sprawl, I like to put 1 foot slightly behind the other foot for base with both of my arm below their arm pits. That keeps their arms in check from grabbing lower for a clean takedown. It also gives me the option for the takedown. It also allows me to "control" their energy upwards.

From there its a matter of flowing with whatever direction that it may go.

[NWPTrainer]

Originally posted by akja



If they adjust to my sprawl, I like to put 1 foot slightly behind the other foot for base with both of my arm below their arm pits. That keeps their arms in check from grabbing lower for a clean takedown. It also gives me the option for the takedown. It also allows me to "control" their energy upwards.

While the double underhooks position is the dominant body position for takedowns in wrestling arts and systems, it has some serious drawbacks as a street position. In wrestling, the counter to double underhooks is to pummel and try to reverse it by attaining your own double underhooks. In a real fight or combat situaiton though, it leaves BOTH of the BGs hands and arms free to strike or grab you. DOuble underhook me, nd I'm either gonna gouge your eyes out, or I'm gonna just slug you in the throat. The collar and elbow or head control positions (think Muay Thai clinch), are much more dominating in the real-world. You can still change levels and go for a high single or a double leg takedown, but you can also use your arms to strike or to tie up the BG's arms so he cannot strike as effectively.
While it is possible for him to do likewise, the individual who has trained in the clinch more realistically will have the advantage here, and can still use such traditional takedowns as the cross-hock (O Soto Gari), the hip throw (O Goshi), and even the shoulder throw (seoi nage). Similarly, in a less-lethal confrontation, where dropping the BG on his head, or crushing his throat is unwarranted (think drunk brother-in-law at the Super Bowl party), they put you in a superior position to utilize restraint holds and gentler takedowns.
I definitly think th double underhooks is an important position to know and train in, but I believe the emphasis should be on transitioning to one of the other dominant clinch positions.

RLTW

[akja]

Originally posted by NWPTrainer


While the double underhooks position is the dominant body position for takedowns in wrestling arts and systems, it has some serious drawbacks as a street position. In wrestling, the counter to double underhooks is to pummel and try to reverse it by attaining your own double underhooks. In a real fight or combat situaiton though, it leaves BOTH of the BGs hands and arms free to strike or grab you. DOuble underhook me, nd I'm either gonna gouge your eyes out, or I'm gonna just slug you in the throat. The collar and elbow or head control positions (think Muay Thai clinch), are much more dominating in the real-world. You can still change levels and go for a high single or a double leg takedown, but you can also use your arms to strike or to tie up the BG's arms so he cannot strike as effectively.
While it is possible for him to do likewise, the individual who has trained in the clinch more realistically will have the advantage here, and can still use such traditional takedowns as the cross-hock (O Soto Gari), the hip throw (O Goshi), and even the shoulder throw (seoi nage). Similarly, in a less-lethal confrontation, where dropping the BG on his head, or crushing his throat is unwarranted (think drunk brother-in-law at the Super Bowl party), they put you in a superior position to utilize restraint holds and gentler takedowns.
I definitly think th double underhooks is an important position to know and train in, but I believe the emphasis should be on transitioning to one of the other dominant clinch positions.

RLTW

You hit it pretty good. The key is "transitioning." I'm not sure if my underhooks are like what you're refering though. I tend to "ride" my opponents arms in a situation like that. Meaning my arms follow his. If He's moving, I'm right there with him. Thats what I was saying abbout controlling his energy upwards.

If we are in a clinch and I have the underhooks and he tries to go low then I ride his arms upwards. If he attempts to create space, I jam or trap. Everything leads to something.

[grubbogoppoly]

All right, I am not trying to bash your post. But grappling is not where you want to be in a street fight(Unless you know you have more friends. Once you go there there is no going back. WHile you may get joe, joes friend bob can come over and do the good ol curby or whatever he so pleases. I understand that this is your personal strength but I just thought I would throw that out there for you to think about.

[akja]

Originally posted by grubbogoppoly
All right, I am not trying to bash your post. But grappling is not where you want to be in a street fight(Unless you know you have more friends. Once you go there there is no going back. WHile you may get joe, joes friend bob can come over and do the good ol curby or whatever he so pleases. I understand that this is your personal strength but I just thought I would throw that out there for you to think about.

This is a "technical discussion" of how we will react to differant situations in "any & all" fighting ranges. Please respond with some detail that is debateable. Its a no brainer that we can be stoped on the ground but it does not "nullify" the groundwork.

Also I think your misunderstanding the word "grappling" as meaning "ground grappling," which they are not one in the same.

Grappling is a natural occurance in any "real" fight and any instructor who does not "recognize" the grappling range(s) as a necessity to understand is weak.

[grubbogoppoly]

I am sorry ak, but I really thought I was responding to one of the bjj guys saying he would just take you to the ground. You know that whole bit. Anyways, again sorry, I replied in the wrong post.

[akja]

Originally posted by grubbogoppoly
I am sorry ak, but I really thought I was responding to one of the bjj guys saying he would just take you to the ground. You know that whole bit. Anyways, again sorry, I replied in the wrong post.

No problem. Just trying to exchange "thoughts" between members in here rather than the "No! I'm right, your wrong" discussions that seem to take place.

Besides getting "technical" views from other members opens up doors to techniques, concepts and principals that we may have overlooked or were not fortunate to be exposed to.