Wong Jak Man kicked Brue's ass.

[YINYANGMAN]

Dear me,i see that documentary and assumed it true(Given Linda Lee was there)about what happened in that fight.
I know Bruce was confident(cocky-sure of himself some may interpret it).
So the 'truth' of what happened in that fight is totally fragmented,untrustworthy??
I feel that if Bruce's opponent could win(by a hold/lock)without resulting in a kill he would have done so if he was good enough..He wouldnt have needed to go for that incapaciting punch/kick.Im sure Bruce could have won it that way(by a perfectly placed strike) if he had wanted to.
Fact is that he did carry on teaching.
Interesting reading.

[MatthewAlphonso]

So yesterday I came upon a four way stop, and as I came to a complete stop there was a car to my right who came to a complete stop before me looking to hang a left. After the car to my right made its turn I then began to proceed forward.

So where is my bias and rhetoric in this story. Since "any story is going to be biased and filled with rhetoric" Yeah, BL did mix philosophies and styles, but after he found what was known to be the best out there and that bettered himself he then melded those methods and ways together to create something unique and alot better/effecient then many other forms of MA.

You're blowing things out of context and forgetting relativity. Also the term, "hang a left" could be considered rhetoric.

Furthermore, as has been established on many different threads in many different forums, there is no giver MA more efficient or better than any other MA. it's a matter of relativity, some MA's are better in different situations then others. And Bruce Lee did nothing new, just continued in the tradition of his forebears, most MA's in history have simply been adaptations of what fighting styles have been around mixing together.

[MatthewAlphonso:"I would be considered by most to be a Bruce disbeliever."]

Where you are wrong is in your constant denial and down play of what BL did contribute. Such as, how to study MAs for the progression and betterment of the individual, and setting a path of functional methods to help guide MA practitioners to what BL considered the ultimate goal. Functional individual expression of both body and mind in MAs.

you're saying BL was the first to encourage people to study in order to better themselves? If anyting, Lee was the opposite. he flat out told you to forget those things and just learn how to destroy those that wish you harm, forget everything else. All MA's look for personal expression, they can not evolve without it. It may just be the teachers locked in the rigid routine,

[MMA Apostate]

you're saying BL was the first to encourage people to study in order to better themselves? If anyting, Lee was the opposite. he flat out told you to forget those things and just learn how to destroy those that wish you harm, forget everything else. All MA's look for personal expression, they can not evolve without it. It may just be the teachers locked in the rigid routine,

To your first question in this paragraph: No. However I take that question to once again fall into the catagory of how you seek to down play what BL did contribute. Yes he did throw out the whole mystical aspect to fighting which was harmful for self defense and the individual, and pressed forward with scientific means of developing oneself as a great individual MA practitioner. I do agree with you that there were MA teachers that had there students cross train before BL. However, No one set out to Pioneer that notion world wide as BL did, and to do so with reality-based means not theory or mysticism.

[MatthewAlphonso]

To your first question in this paragraph: No. However I take that question to once again fall into the catagory of how you seek to down play what BL did contribute. Yes he did throw out the whole mystical aspect to fighting which was harmful for self defense and the individual, and pressed forward with scientific means of developing oneself as a great individual MA practitioner. I do agree with you that there were MA teachers that had there students cross train before BL. However, No one set out to Pioneer that notion world wide as BL did, and to do so with reality-based means not theory or mysticism.

ok, so I'm trying to downplay what he contributed, did I say I wasn't? I don't think he really contributed a whole lot.

with the rise in popularity of television, and the continuing decay of isolationism it was only a matter of time before this happened. he merely happened to be in the right place at the right time.

If he pioneered anything it was out of greed. he was above all else a businessman. he new if people saw his movies they would want to learn his style, he made millions out of teaching classes and selling his books. his estate still rakes in money from royalties.

[MMA Apostate]

ok, so I'm trying to downplay what he contributed, did I say I wasn't? I don't think he really contributed a whole lot.

with the rise in popularity of television, and the continuing decay of isolationism it was only a matter of time before this happened. he merely happened to be in the right place at the right time.

If he pioneered anything it was out of greed. he was above all else a businessman. he new if people saw his movies they would want to learn his style, he made millions out of teaching classes and selling his books. his estate still rakes in money from royalties.

If you say so

So if JKD really isn't that good. And BL was just a greedy business man that was able to dupe alot of people. In your honest opinion. What is the best Art or Arts to train in?

What are the better options or methods out there that JKD practitioners have been overlooking for over 30 years?

What philosophies did BL overlook that would of caused the individual MA practitioner to evolve more into a better fighter?

You seem to easily be able to sit back and debate why BL and his art of JKD is mediocre. I want you to enlighten me.

What is the better way/path for the martial artist? And who has lived there life to the fullest extent under this "better way" to prove it?

[MatthewAlphonso]

If you say so

So if JKD really isn't that good. And BL was just a greedy business man that was able to dupe alot of people. In your honest opinion. What is the best Art or Arts to train in?

What are the better options or methods out there that JKD practitioners have been overlooking for over 30 years?

What philosophies did BL overlook that would of caused the individual MA practitioner to evolve more into a better fighter?

You seem to easily be able to sit back and debate why BL and his art of JKD is mediocre. I want you to enlighten me.

What is the better way/path for the martial artist? And who has lived there life to the fullest extent under this "better way" to prove it?

No where did I say that jkd was mediocre. Indeed I did say that no art is the best art, that it is a matter a relativity. certain arts are better for certain people and in certain situations

I think Bruce Lee overlooks the individual. his philosophies can not be applied to everyone. for example with my current body shape and size I would not be a good JKD practitioner. However I can be competitive in BJJ and TkD. it's a matter of individuality. and I'm sorry but the average JKD practitioner won't stand a chance rolling with a half decent JJ practitioner.

[MMA Apostate]

and I'm sorry but the average JKD practitioner won't stand a chance rolling with a half decent JJ practitioner.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! All right you got me. You've been playing "Devil's Advocate" this whole time and messing with me. I get it. Very well played. I kind of figured so with your 2nd to last post, but this last one I finely got it.
Once again very well played

[MatthewAlphonso]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! All right you got me. You've been playing "Devil's Advocate" this whole time and messing with me. I get it. Very well played. I kind of figured so with your 2nd to last post, but this last one I finely got it.
Once again very well played

what the hell are you talking about. my previous statements about jkd we an accurate portrayal of my beliefs. so I'm not really sure why I would be playing the devil's advocate here

[fenwick99]

breaking with jkd

I am breaking off all contact with the jkd subculture, bfl, etc.
If wjm beat or tied bl, then I am angry over being lied to all these years.

If llc's version of events is true, then she should be suing wjm, his students, Michael Dorgan, Jimbo Wales, and anyone&everyone who has ever written that the wjm view is true. It is like the swift boat veterens thing in 2004--- if you fail to refute a claim, it becomes truth by concensus.

Besides, if you do wing chun along with kali and the mma arts, you don't need
jkd. Matt Hughes and Chuck Liddell are not jkd guys, nor wc guys,
and you don't see them running to Ted Wong or Richard Bustillo for pointers.
JKd is part of the history it tried to overcome.

"the owl of minerva spreads her wings only after night has fallen."

[ryanwp941979]

so

who the heck cares who won or lost a private match in 1964? My brother is now a tkd sa bum nim, and whipped his butt all over the place many times
when he was 16 and I was 14. He was older but I was stronger, and I wrestled.

[MatthewAlphonso]

who the heck cares who won or lost a private match in 1964? My brother is now a tkd sa bum nim, and whipped his butt all over the place many times
when he was 16 and I was 14. He was older but I was stronger, and I wrestled.

I actually agree with you, but 1) I enjoy pissing people off (Bad habit, I know) and 2) following your logic, why do people get pissed when someone says that Jesus may have had a child? when anyone says anything about Jesus? People just want someone out there to be perfect at something so they can believe they can be perfect too.

[kurt_myers0369]

You stole the entire country off the American Indian, you gormless numptified idiotic pathetic are brained wank chops tit nosed dipshit!

Haw haw haw!!

Y'all have a nice day now.....

I know you posted this over three years ago buddy, but I'm on duty tonight and had a ton of time on my hands so I was reading some old posts. This one struck me as hilarious! I'm pretty sure the British were the first to steal the land from the Indians, we just stole it from you! (Although the west was definitely our bad!) And I was going to say the only reason the Germans didnt overrun you with the quickness is because they made the same mistake they made in WW1, they divided themselves by attacking Russia at the same time. If they had just focused their attack on their western front like they originally intended, they would have whipped your asses in a matter of months. Not only should Britain be thanking the US, they should thank god Russia kept Germany busy long enough for us to come to your aid. Thanks for the interesting reading guys. You sure make Staff Duty alot more interesting!

[kurt_myers0369]

Firstly, we shouldn't have gone to Iraq. If Saddam wants to kill his people then thats up to him. Harsh yes but thats how I feel. Its easy for you to say bomb here bomb there KILL KILL KILL but would you be willing to lose your father or brother or even your own life to liberate this oil rich nation. Its easy to say in your armchair dude, different kettle of fish when the call comes in and the plane to Iraq is on its way. Remember that many of the troops in Iraq didnt want to be there and only went coz they had no choice. I know of several Army men who went AWOL from their base before the war coz they were that against going.
.

A poor attitude... I bet you're happy the US didnt feel the same way when Germany was bombing the shit out of you huh???

I am a combat veteran from Operation Iraqi Freedom and we are not there for the oil, we are there to liberate a people who have been under some sort of oppression for a thousand years. 95% of them love us and are thankful we are there. Saddam gassed entire kurdish villages, killing thousands. Last time i checked, chemical weapons are WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. Just cause we didnt find them doesnt mean he didnt have any...

[ryanwp941979]

good point

When my fahter took karate in the 1960s, people could read about all kinds of exotic arts but really only had any access to a taekwondo school, a karate school of some style, and judo at the YMCA. Bruce became popular when the debate over martial arts systems was mainly academic and theoretical. However, in 1993 all of it changed guys like Severn, the Gracies, and Coleman proved that grapplers could defeat strikers. Later, guys like Mo Smith and Chuck Liddell proved that, with a superb take-down defense and knockout power, a striker could beat a grappler. Either way, it turned out that jujitsu. boxing, wrestling, and mauy thai were the
FUNCTIONAL ARTS. Gung-fu, karate, tkd, tsd, etc. of whatever style or lineage doesn't enter into the debate. Now, look at how much reality combat there is: Tim Larkin, Jerry Pedersen, all of the krav maga guys, Jim Wagner,
UFC, Pride, K-1, multiple styles of FMA including the Dog Brothers, and the list goes on. People in the BL lineage are part of "reality combat" but not all of it. There is no longer any mystery to fighting-- it has all worked out in the ring. And this doesn't rule out the traditional arts, but it simply points out what is and is not needed for REAL defense. BL, win or lose in '64, can be a part of this, but not necessarily.

[Juicefree]

Last time i checked, chemical weapons are WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. Just cause we didnt find them doesnt mean he didnt have any...

Best check again, but then again, when it comes to weapons of mass destructions you guys are the experts.

the Germans didnt overrun you with the quickness is because they made the same mistake they made in WW1

Best check out The Battle of Britain, and your grammar whilst you're there.