Kenpo compared to TKD

[new_guy]

Hi Folks. I'm weighing some options as I'm looking at new schools and styles. In this thread, I'd like to compare two styles without it degenerating into a "my style is great your style sucks" debacle.

But, I was comparing kenpo with TKD and am trying to chose between them. I have visited schools and have found a TKD school I like and a kenpo school I like and here are some observations and questions. I'd like to get feedback.

1)TKD is about 90% foot techniques and, although powerful and aggressive, it's designed for sport and may not always be effective self defense. In TKD (WTF olympic style) sparring though, you wear chest protection and spar full force, which gives the practitioner the feel of going full power as well as absorbing full power kicks, which in turn IS good self defense conditioning.

2)Kenpo is more balanced with with hand and feet tenchiques and is more self defense oriented than sport. However, pre arranged moves are practiced and the sparring is always controled. While controlled sparring helps range, speed, stanima and technique, it doesn't give one the practice and feel of full force kicks and punches as are practiced in TKD.

In summery, the delima in chosing between the two arts is that, TKD is a sport, but it's sparring is more aggresive and one can get the feel of delivering full force kicks. Kenpo is a better for self defense, but the practice and sparring is far less realistic in terms of delivering powerful straikes.

Am I right about this or am I off track? I've visited these schools once, so if I'm off base tell me. I'm not trying to start a controversy, just trying to gain knowledge as choosing a martial art school is proving to be a difficult decision.

Would appreciate insight

Thank you

[Tom Yum]

Kenpo is done with contact sparring, it just depends on the instructor and school.

[bigboywasim]

I am learning Kenpo and right now and we spar full contact. My instructor includes strikes to the face and low kicks as well. It depends on the instructor.

[Britt]

Been meaning to reply to this but haven't had time till now. Like the other gents said, the amount and degree of sparring you'll see in a Kenpo school varies greatly, depending on the style and school. Remember the big open handed gloves Bruce Lee wore in "Enter the Dragon"? Kenpo gloves, kind of a foreunner of modern MMA gloves.

In some Kenpo schools you'll see point sparring that looks a lot like what you'd expect to see in a TKD class, in some you'll see full contact fighting, and in still others you'll see both and everything in between. Kajukenbo, for example, traditionally has a philosophy that one has to feel the techniques to understand them (i.e. get hit and get hit hard) and that training first and foremost has to be realistic. Old school Kajukenbo in Hawaii was brutal, full contact, no pads, and training "wasn't over until blood was on the floor." It's toned down today, but the emphasis at the upper levels is still on hard, realistic training.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

out of curiosity, why have you narrowed it down to these two? is it simply an issue of proximity and availability, or are these two particularly attractive to you?

i would put in a vote for kenpo based mostly on versatility as opposed to tkd, but it really depends on a lot more factors as others have hinted.

[new_guy]

out of curiosity, why have you narrowed it down to these two? is it simply an issue of proximity and availability, or are these two particularly attractive to you?

i would put in a vote for kenpo based mostly on versatility as opposed to tkd, but it really depends on a lot more factors as others have hinted.

Thanks for your replies.

Judo_Jibbo, I've concentrated on these two becasue I already have some muay thai experience and all grappling arts (judo, jujitsu etc.) are out for me as I have a torn rotator cuff and would rather avoid surgery. Striking arts don't bothetr the shoulder, but getting an arm bent wrong may put me on the operating table.

An update: I've signed up for kenpo at a school where I really like the instructor (6th degree black belt, 24 years experience). There are group classes that go along with semi-private belt specific lessons. The school also offers a parallel programs called "open streets combatives" where there is lots of contact and intensity complete with full contact standup as well as a ground day (which I will be limited, unfortunatley). 14 oz. gloves or MMA gloves are worn with boxing headgear.

I am also going to cross train once a week at my muay thai school for the superior conditioning and intensity and occassional sparring.

Hopefully, all of this won't cause mental overload. Physically, I know I can take it, but mentally, we'll see if I get confused from the different styles. Right now I'm doing it all and will possibly eliminate something after I know more and develope a preference.

What do you guys think of this plan?

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

sounds great, glad you're liking kenpo right off the bat. sounds like you're determined and know what you want out of your training, i'm sure you'll get it.

[aseepish]

It sounds like you've got yourself a plan, but here's something else that can be said in support of Kenpo.

Assuming you're on the Ed Parker side (I can't speak for other branches, maybe they have something similar), Kenpo "concepts" are ideas that can be applied to any other art.

Things like:
-economy of motion, non-telegraphic motion
-outer rim (don't block something that's not going to hit you)
-cancellation of an opponent's height, width, and depth

Kenpo was my first art, and while there were somethings that I now disagree with, a lot of what I learned has been relevant to everything I've studied since.

[new_guy]

It sounds like you've got yourself a plan, but here's something else that can be said in support of Kenpo.

Assuming you're on the Ed Parker side (I can't speak for other branches, maybe they have something similar), Kenpo "concepts" are ideas that can be applied to any other art.

Things like:
-economy of motion, non-telegraphic motion
-outer rim (don't block something that's not going to hit you)
-cancellation of an opponent's height, width, and depth

Kenpo was my first art, and while there were somethings that I now disagree with, a lot of what I learned has been relevant to everything I've studied since.

Out of curiosity and for my own education, what are the concepts with which you disagree?

[tkddad]

Be careful with that torn rotator cuff. Kenpo has some locks and joint manipulation to it as well. Given that you already have a background in Muay Thai I'd say you've made a good choice. Two of the best aspects of Taekwondo are conditioning and competition which you've probably already been exposed to in Muay Thai. Get a good base in one art before branching out too much or you'll remain confused in your movements.

I'll also echo that Kenpo "concepts" are ideas that can be applied to any other art. I find stuff all the time that makes my Taekwondo better when I'm in Kenpo class. The most important thing in any art is to choose a good instructor.

7yrs TKD and 1 in IKCA Kenpo
I still love both.

[aseepish]

Out of curiosity and for my own education, what are the concepts with which you disagree?

I disagreed with some of the training methods and the way the concepts were presented rather than with the concepts themselves.

The training could be modernized: standing in a horse stance and doing reverse punches isn't my thing. Yes, it's only a conditioning drill, but there are more efficient ways to do conditioning. Hitting focus mitts, foot work drills - that's a better use of class time IMHO.

There was also an over-emphasis on self-defence techniques over sparring (and they have their reasons for that). What sparring we did was medium-contact point sparring (with a break and salutation after each "point").

[jubaji]

Thanks for your replies.

Judo_Jibbo, I've concentrated on these two becasue I already have some muay thai experience and all grappling arts (judo, jujitsu etc.) are out for me as I have a torn rotator cuff and would rather avoid surgery. Striking arts don't bothetr the shoulder, but getting an arm bent wrong may put me on the operating table.?

If you have an injury, you need to have it taken care of. Don't use it as an excuse for what you don't want to train.

[Hardball]

This thread is biased because it is in the Kempo fourm. If you want a fair discussion then you have to copy and paste to the Korean forum where TKD lives!!!! Yikes