Hapkido

[Tom Yum]

The kanji for "Hap" means flow. The kanji for "ki" means chi, like the chinese chi power and "do" means way.

In Korean: Hap Ki Do
In Japanese: Ai Ki Do
In Chinese: He Qi Dao

Also, Tang Soo Do doesn't mean way of the empty hand. It means way of the Tang hand, named appropriately after the Tang dynasty in China.

Why the hell is a Korean MA named after a Chinese dynasty?

During the Tang Dynasty, North Korean, Japan and North Vietnam were former Chinese provinces. The Tang Dynasty produced major commerce through central and SE asia because of its location and resources and therefore influenced Asia culturally. Examples of that influence come from the Japanese Geisha (style and fashion is how Tang royal women dressed), Chinese words for commodity goods like tea and of precious metals like gold were the same and still today.

Tea: Mandarin = Cha, Japanese =Cha, Korean = Cha???
Gold: Mandarin = Jin, Korean = Kim, Vietnamese = Kim

Buddhist temples in Korea, Japan and Vietnam still bear traditional Chinese characters which have the same meaning as classical Chinese.

[EnlightenedOne]

hmmmm......interesting. There are many ways to translate Hapkido: Some say Way of Water, some say way of coordinated power or what you said like way or flow of chi...however you want to say it, all of these things are a part of Hapkido.

[Tom Yum]

The character ki doesn't have a definite meaning. The meaning in the case of Hap Ki Do is closest chi power, like chi breathing and internal chi energy.

[Tom Yum]

On another interesting note, some historians and anthropologists believe that the word for gold (pronounced kim in the Tang dynasty) was used also by arabic traders who traded gold for spices. They say that one such famous trader from the arabic world changed his surname to Al-Qim, because of his gold trading profession.

His obsession with getting gold lead to experiments trying to create gold from other substances. During the inquisitions, the Europeans tried to copy his work and dubbed the study Alchemy.

Historians will disagree on the validity of this. I got this from an American anthropologist who did research on Central and East Asian Cultures.

[EnlightenedOne]

Okay? So what does that have to do with anything?

[Tom Yum]

kim, Al-qim, alchemy...

Just an interesting piece of research to talk about at a cocktail party

[BadgerFu57]

I took a few months of hapkido.... It was ok.

I don't like the strikes. They are just TKD kicks and hand stuff. Sparring was all TKD rules. In order to be realistic you need to allow two new things to TKD rules: 1. Punches to the face 2. Kicks to the legs But whatever floats your boat.

I didn't like the emphasis on variety of techniques and variations. I would have rather learnt principals, practice a technique in class, then did randori (free sparring) to learn it. There was no free sparring (in the grappling sense). The instructor said it was because it was too dangerous.... my question is.... has he never seen a Judo or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu sparring session? Once you learn to breakfall, and as long as you exhibit some sense of control, it's relatively safe.

[Thai Bri]

Too dangerous? Haw haw haw!

What he means is that he can't do it, and neither can his students. So they don't want some BJJer with 3 months experience kicking all their arses.

How crap is that?

[Sungpaeki]

Okay I don't know where I should start but here it goes.

I have done Hapkido for around 10 years now, and I have loved every minute of it. I consider myself and my school to be very hardcore and very traditional.

-History: Sadly Hapkido's history is clouded. The way that I understand it is that Choi Yong-Sul was taken to Japan. He became a servant of Sokaku Tekada and learned Daito Ryu Aiki-Jutsu. After Tekada Sensei died Choi returned to Korea, losing his luggage and proof that he had ever studied Aiki-Jutsu. He began to teach his art under the name Yoo-sool. In the late 1950s one of his students, Ji Han-Jae, added kicks from Taek-Kyun, weapons techniques, breathing exercises, and ki training and offered the name Hapkido to GM Choi. The name Hapkido was to symbolize that it was more of a way of life then sets of techniques (Sool = techniques). Choi did not add anything to what he was teaching but excepted the name. He continued to teach Tekada's original teachings under the name of Hapkido until his death. Ji and Choi each had many students which brought some confussion to what the Hapkido techniques really were.

--Techniques: In my opinion Hapkido techniques look more like Aiki-Jutsu than Aikido techniques do. Aikido-ka depend very much on an opponents momentum, while Hapkidoists generate their own momentum. I have spoken to many Hapkidoists that have worked side by side with Aiki-Jutsu people.

It amazes me that people can base an entire martial art on one school that they went to or visited. The techniques that I have practiced there is no possible way anyone could learn just by watching, and emulating, you need to feel the technique. It would be impossible for Choi to learn an art and use it effectively without practicing at all.

Seriously I have never been to a real Hapkido school that does TKD sparring, and I hope I never do. We do our own sparring with leg kicks, jointlocks, throws and ground fighting.

Yes, Hapkido contains ground fighting, not anywhere near to the extent of BJJ but the basic techniques are there. Defenses from guard, mount, side mount, doing armbars, key locks, triangles, etc. Just the basic stuff. We don't start teaching it until blue belt however, until the student is fairly comfortable with standing techniques.

--Theories: Hapkidos theories are very much a part of the art and make it very much alive. Yoo(flowing as in Water), Won(circular threoy), and Hwa(Harmony or Nonresistance) are taught and emphasized from day one.

I have run into quite a few TKD schools that claim to teach Hapkido also. When I come to find out they just teach a few jointlocks that they learned at a seminar and use the Hapkido name to get people in the door. Some of these schools even get matching rank in Hapkido that they have in TKD from going to these magical seminars. This type of thing in my opinion is really hurting the art, and peoples impression of what Hapkido is.

Hapkido is a living breathing art, that is continually evolving. It is not for the timid, because it is complex and contains so many different types of techniques and defenses it is, and should be very difficult to become a teacher of or even a black belt. Some teachers focus on what they like the most about Hapkido giving less effort to the other things. But, if you can find an instructor that is dedicated and lives Hapkido, and is superb in all facets then that would be a very dangerous person.

I hope I didn't seem to harsh, but I am very passionate about my chosen art and will defend it to the death. If anyone has questions for me I would be happy to answer them to the best of my abilities.

[Thai Bri]

"........because it is complex and contains so many different types of techniques and defenses it is, and should be very difficult to become a teacher of or even a black belt."

And herein lies the weakness. If you love it, thats great. But don't rely on this complicaed art ewhen you're life is in danger. Only the most basic and brutal techniques have a chance of coming through the cloud of your terror. And the more techniques you know, the more log jammed your head will be.

Having a very small number of brutal techniques, along with a wide potential for application, is the way to go.

[Sungpaeki]

Originally posted by Thai Bri

And herein lies the weakness. If you love it, thats great. But don't rely on this complicaed art ewhen you're life is in danger. Only the most basic and brutal techniques have a chance of coming through the cloud of your terror. And the more techniques you know, the more log jammed your head will be.

Having a very small number of brutal techniques, along with a wide potential for application, is the way to go.

Complex was possibly the wrong term. What I meant was that we learn to defend ourselves from all ranges and all kinds of attacks, but I see where you're coming from and I have heard this arguement before. I will agree that for people that play at martial arts at McDojangs 2 days a week 1 hour at a time cannot rely on their art to save their life. The people that don't have the time to train would do much better to practice the way that you have stated with learning less techniques. You can only get out of martial arts what you put into them.

I am a big believer in the phrase "Fight how you train, and train how you fight." We have class 4 times a week 2 hours at a time. We work very hard in class to make our techniques a part of muscle memory. I am also very big on showing a serious attitude and conveying confidence in a self-defense situation. So, when we are attacked we act instead of trying to remember what is the best defense for this move. We train to not be

I am quite aware that fights are sloppy and don't turn out like the movies, I train my students to be fierce and survive an attack. Not all techniques are 100% effective 100% of the time, so if one doesn't work go on to the next one. We are not confined to a little box called Hapkido. We practice a living breathing martial art.

I am sure that none of what I have written here has changed your preconceived notions about me and my training. Just like you have not changed my mind in anyway. In the end we will have to agree to disagree.

[Thai Bri]

Do you train your people to be fierce, or to be "controlled"?

Make your mind up. In another thread you said the opposite.

[Sungpaeki]

Originally posted by Thai Bri

Do you train your people to be fierce, or to be "controlled"?

Make your mind up. In another thread you said the opposite.

Are you saying that when you get into a fight that you completely black out and are a killing machine that never stops? I believe you said:

Totally release your inhibitions. The body rarely goes "all out" for fear of injuring itself. Exploding with rage bypasses this....

You have no control over yourself what so ever, so if you knock the guy out do you not stop, or do you keep going?

I think that we both would say that we find middle ground between control and being fierce. I'm not saying that we are some kind of Kung-fu master from the movies that moves effortlessly, and dispatches his enemies with a pinky and a straight face practically yawning at his attackers. We train to defend ourselves hard and with conviction, but at the same time we are in control of ourselves.

[Thai Bri]

AFTER the fight, I stop. I AM in control. I CHOOSE to go to rage, and I choose when to come out of it too.

You're version of control is the silly one. It may be applicable to combat sports, where rules and equipment prolong the contest. But to a real go? Nah.

[brokenelbow]

AFTER the fight, I stop. I AM in control. I CHOOSE to go to rage, and I choose when to come out of it too.

Then I doubt you're really in a rage state. How do you practice this supposed rage state? Do you turn green and wear purple pants? TB you make alot of good points, but this whole rage/control thing just doesn't cut it.