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So why TKD is bashed?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by tkd_person89
    I sensed some sarcasm there???? Maybe it was just me but yes i do in fact plan on doing that

    it seems to be a lot of white, street punk kids who are joining this bandwagon, thinking that if they dont do tkd they will be elite streetfighters, whatever the hell those are
    COURTESY (Ye Ui)
    It can be said that courtesy is an unwritten regulation prescribed by ancient teachers of philosophy as a means to enlighten human beings while maintaining a harmonious society. It can be further be as an ultimate criterion required of a mortal.

    Taekwon-Do students should attempt to practice the following elements of courtesy to build up their noble character and to conduct the training in an orderly manner as well.
    1) To promote the spirit of mutual concessions
    2) To be ashamed of one's vices, contempting those of others
    3) To be polite to one another
    4) To encourage the sense of justice and humanity
    5) To distinguish instructor from student, senior from junior, and elder from younger
    6) To behave oneself according to etiquette
    7) To respect others' possessions
    8) To handle matters with fairness and sincerity
    9) To refrain from giving or accepting a gift when in doubt

    INTEGRITY (Yom Chi)
    In Taekwon-Do, the word integrity assumes a looser definition than the one usually presented in Webster's dictionary. One must be able to define right and wrong and have a conscience, if wrong, to feel guilt. Listed are some examples where integrity is lacking:
    1) The instructor who misrepresents himself and his art by presenting improper techniques to his students because of a lack of knowledge or apathy.
    2) The student who misrepresents himself by "fixing" breaking materials before demonstrations.
    3) The instructor who camouflages bad technique with luxurious training halls and false flattery to his students.
    4) The student who requests ranks from an instructor, or attempts to purchase it.
    5) The student who gains rank for ego purposes or the feeling of power.
    6) The instructor who teaches and promotes his art for materialistic gains.
    7) The students whose actions do not live up to his words.
    8) The student who feels ashamed to seek opinions from his juniors.

    PERSEVERANCE (In Nae)
    There is an old Oriental saying, "Patience leads to virtue or merit, One can make a peaceful home by being patient for 100 times." Certainly happiness and prosperity are most likely brought to the patient person. To achieve something, whether it is a higher degree or the perfection or a technique, one must set his goal, then constantly persevere. Robert Bruce learned his lesson of perseverance from the persistent efforts of a lowly spider. It was this perseverance and tenacity that finally enabled him to free Scotland in the fourteenth century. One of the most important secrets in becoming a leader of Taekwon-Do is to overcome every difficulty by perseverance. Confucius said, "one who is impatient in trivial matters can seldom achieve success in matters of great importance."

    SELF CONTROL (Guk Gi)
    This tenet is extremely important inside and outside the dojang, whether conducting oneself in free sparring or in one's personal affairs. A loss of self-control in free sparring can prove disastrous to both student and opponent. An inability to live and work within one's capability or sphere is also a lack of self-control.

    According to Lao-Tzu "the term of stronger is the person who wins over oneself rather than someone else."

    INDOMITABLE SPIRIT (Baekjool Boolgool)
    "Here lie 300, who did their duty," a simple epitaph for one of the greatest acts of courage known to mankind. Although facing the superior forces of Xerxes, Leonidas and his 300 Spartans at Thermoplylae showed the world the meaning of indomitable spirit. It is shown when a courageous person and his principles are pitted against overwhelming odds.

    A serious student of Taekwon-Do will at all times be modest and honest. If confronted with injustice, he will deal with the belligerent without any fear or hesitation at all, with indomitable spirit, regardless of whosoever and however many the number may be.

    Confucius declared," It is an act of cowardice to fail to speak out against injustice." As history has proven, those who have pursued their dreams earnestly and strenuously with indomitable spirit have never failed to achieve their goals.

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    • #17
      Part of the problem...

      Originally posted by tkd_person89
      Well said.. but


      I too have a problem with 9 yr olds with black belts. But if he/she put in that time (3 to 4 yrs) to reach 1st dan, I don't think the child should be deprived of one.

      Thanks Ronald, I will have fries with that!

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      • #18
        I believe its possible to get enough training within 3-5 years to attain a black belt. I see most other TMA students training two times a week. Now, not knowing the average time that another school would train per day i'll guesstimate 3 hours ( i know there is no possible way to generate an average training time as many many schools are different)

        104 Training days a year (Twice per week)
        312 hours of training a year


        312 Days of Training ( at my dojang atleast, can't speak for the McDojangs)
        3120 hours of training a year

        Now if I'm right in my minimal guess of hours for other schools, I think its plausible that one could attain black belt in a few years with the amount of training a TKD student could do*.


        *Atleast at my dojang, I cannot speak for other ones as I've said before.

        Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by tkd_person89
          Well said.. but


          I too have a problem with 9 yr olds with black belts. But if he/she put in that time (3 to 4 yrs) to reach 1st dan, I don't think the child should be deprived of one. After all that hard work, it would seem rather nasty to say "No, you can't have one just because you're too young".

          Age isn't an issue with me unless the blackbelts are just handed over. My dojang used to be really good but lately it's been getting watered down unfortunately
          The problem is what you state to believe a kid should have a bb because they worked for three years is not a valid reason in fact time is nothing more than an indicator. The problem (which is not only with TKD or Korean arts) is that they are recreational. A 9 year old should not be appeased and if you have to do that it shows the level of maturity which is why a 9 yr old should not have a BB. In a lot of Chinese style it is simple teacher and student. The advancement is based on application not "ok mom and dad paid for the test I will pass you".

          Seriously do you see the kiddie programs they are like romper room and have very little to do with MAs but they get passed and graded.

          I am not bashing TKD its any style that fits the description. My opinion is that MA should not be for everyone.

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          • #20
            You can work your ass off 25 hours a day, 8 days a week for 4 years and i still do not believe that a person can be called a "master" its simply not enough time for a human being.
            You can eat, sleep and live what ever art you do. But I honestly do not believe that one can be called a master in such a short time(anything less than 4 yrs), much less master the art itself. Like i said, the Black Belt is supposed to the be holy grail of holy grails that each and every martial artist hopes to attain in his life. If a Kid can reach what was once the pinnacle of MAs, that does not speak well of truely deserving and skilled black belters. If we really want to see MAs enjoy the respect it had prior to the outbreak of MCdojos, then alot of legit schools need to buck up.
            Mastery is supposed to mean a high/the highest level attainable in a given subject.
            MARTIAL ARTS.
            So what if the kid can perform every kata to the inch? So what if his kicks have lightning Bolts flying out of them? So what if his punch can fell trees?
            The kid has only covered the Martial aspect of his art! A kid is highly unlikely to have developed the Social skills, brain capacity and wisdom to fully understand, appriciate and comprehend the Spritiual and ART aspect of his Martial Art. The Wisdom to understand that its not only about the fighting, its not only about the skill one posseses. A kid could probably recite his/her art's motto/rules/goals better than she can the pledge. But that doesn't mean they understand what they just said.

            True mastery lies in knowing and putting into practise both aspects of MARTIAL ARTS. Yes that takes something like 20 years, but that is the true meaning of mastery. Understanding and applying every concept you learn. That was the time taken by many of our ancestors took to being true black belts. Nowadays too many look for quick graftification. Learning is not a quick and easy process, it never was and never will be. Mastery requires many many years of hard work, sweat, blood and sacrifice. No 9yr old i know of has that type of discipline. Much less the power to do it in 3 years.

            The TRUE meaning of the Black belt, is a White belt by the years of training, Years of Sweat, toil and blood that is dirtied. Every speck of dust represents one step you took toward mastery. Yes that is one F%^&ing dirty belt, but that is one black belt well earned, earned to the true meaning of mastery.

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            • #21
              No 9yr old i know of has that type of discipline. Much less the power to do it in 3 years.
              Yeah I think a 9 year old does have a problem like that, which is why a youth's blackbelt is not 1st Dan, its first Poom, then they retest when they are 16-18. Kind of relaxed system (atleast here in the states) I personally waited until I was older to train for this reason alone.

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              • #22
                Exactly! There are more types of black belts than the rest of the colours combined!
                Black belts are being handed out too liberally. Mastery is the key word here. Work with me.
                The problem lies in TKD and most everyother MA with a belt system(not that no belt means better masters). Black belt for punching, Back belt for jumping, black belt for side kick, black belt for push kick. Lets just give every one a black belt.
                The thing is, thats what an outsider sees. An outsider has pratically no way to differenciate between a 3rd dan and a 7th dan. To them, a black belt is a black belt. Supposed to represent mastery in one's art. Sadly when 9yr old kids don the BB, they end up shaming the art instead. If not by sheer lack of skill, then by poor attuide, behaviour and understanding of the concepts. They lack the capacity and ability to represent mastery of their art.
                It should take someone at least 10 years to achieve 1st dan. It should require years upon years of toil and sheer hardwork.

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                • #23
                  I think its not just that but the perception of a BB in westernised culture, now-a-days black belts aren't a symbol of mastery but seen as the beginning of learning the art in its fullest.

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                  • #24
                    Shard I think we are starting to agree, although I still feel black belt is attainable in 5 years. I feel mastery is an ongoing journey to be honest.

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