A Black Belt symbolizes

[kuk sool won]

I think the rank you are in a belt system seems to matter more to people outside of the art than those actually practising it. If i said i have a blue belt in TKD it obviously doesn't sound as impressive as saying i have a black belt. Everyone knows their own ability and what they can do. I'm still only brown belt in my current art KSW but i know in my heart my sparring far supasses most browns, blacks and instructors. Then again my techniques are mediocre and my form isn't perfect. Im happy at the belt level i am at, i wouldn't mind if i had to start all over as white belt again or get rushed to black, it seems to get a lot less meaningful once you get integrated into the art, but it will always carry a meaning. im proud of the belts i have achieved in all arts and i keep them on display because to me it sets as a mile stone, i can think back to my ability then and compare it to now, when looking back at my first white belt i can remember my unfocused punchs, sloppy kicks and misunderstanding of each 'technique' and their uses. I can remember my hip toss was all down to brute force and my wrist locks didn't lock at all, oh how times have changed...

[WildWest.]

Its hard to compare peoples levels after you've crossed over into other styles. I got to BB in Taekwondo when I was 17 after starting at 12 so I had some experience behind me when I earnt the belt and some good skills.....but little knowledge as I was only 17 and just didn't understand what I know now about the MA's. I then moved onto Muay Thai and have been doing that since. Over the last couple of years I have picked up Hapkido which is awesome, but I could already out spar the highest ranked students and instructor as a white belt. What does that mean? Nothing really. In a real fight though I think my instructor would probably beat me...he knows a lot of dirty tricks.

The BB serves the individuals ego. I don't think people should read into the belt system too much, but I can understand a MA students need for accomplishment when they start to train. After they build up experience then they will see the belt system for what it is. Unfortunately some people never see it and will continue to live in "Movieland".

[kuk sool won]

from what i can make from that, its basically everyones opinion

[bjjp]

well a belt only covers 2 iches of you ass kill covers the rest but it dont matter about the belt it matters about the person the belt is around.thought i would put my two cent worth in.

[kuk sool won]

you have to take into account for every rule, there are exceptions, not everything can be measured and put into statisitics. For example some people are rewarded their black belt via reasons of honour, therefore they aren't experienced? Then again, GENERALLY, peoples fighting ability will have gotten better since they had first started training.

[Zentenk]

Knowledge - of what exactly? I'm pretty sure those 11 year old black belts are very knowledgable.

Skill - Hardly, I've seen some BB that lacked skill, maybe they didn't try hard enough or weren't trained properly.

Experience - They have to go through it so they gain the experience to become a BB.

Fighting Ability - No, some people just aren't born to fight and will always suck even if they are black belts.

[Shaolin Bushido]

cool sites.

Thank you.

[totaltwatdeano]

cool sites.

[Shaolin Bushido]

So what is the point of improving your technique ever so slightly over 5 to 6 years? What technique are you spending so much time working on?

Some people train in various arts as a vehicle for self perfection ... obviously you have other motivation but it depends on how you were trained. Maybe you train just for self defense or competition but my old teacher would often share stories of him still trying ot perfect the simplest techniques ... after 50 years or so of experience.

[Shaolin Bushido]

Only a noob would assume every black belt has all those qualities. He would have some experience and that's what I clicked.

[totaltwatdeano]

What does a black truly symbolize?

that if you kick someone in the balls, they definitely won't get up!

[GQchris]

I like what Bruce said about belts, that they were good for holding up pants... it matters more that the man be able to actually fight.

[Balrog]

...snip...
Even now, skill alone is only the prime factor up to the 4th or 5th degree black belt levels. Skill, while still a factor in ranking, is combined with politics and age for most promotions from 6th to 7th degree. Politics and age alone are generally the only factors in promotions from 8th to 10th degree.

Not necessarily.

In the Songahm style, taught by ATA, everybody tests for rank. When the founder of ATA, H. U. Lee, was elevated to Grand Master, he brought in ranking and recognized Grand Masters from other styles and tested in public before them and all of the Songahm students that were present (I was one of them). Upon his death, S. H. Lee became the Grand Master and did the same thing.

GM H. U. Lee's philosophy was that, regardless of rank, we are all students. I was present at a regional testing where he was the guest judge. Just before the testing, a young white belt kid asked him, "Sir, who teaches you?". GM Lee replied, "You do!".

[kwai chang pain]

I think robertlee makes some good points. A low ranking black belt (1st dan, some even have "zero" dan) symbolizes mastery of the basics. Beyond that you could argue the dans/degrees are steps toward becoming a master. For a lot of styles that is 5th dan.

IMHO what black belt REALLY SHOULD represent is someone who can dish it out and who can take it. It's unfortunate that rank is such a joke at soooo many schools. If you want to really BE a black belt, you damn well better have tested yourself.

I got 2nd dan in one style, but I didn't want to go on because I didn't think going onto 3rd would really improve me. Plus, there's always politics and the almighty dollar along with it. Now I'm basically one of those "masterless samurai's".

[robertlee]

It used to take from 3 to 5 years for shodan. Then 2 more years to make nidan then 2 more years for sandan. Then 3 more years for yondan then 3 more for godan. After that it was time and effert as many styles have no set requirrements after yondan. But As have said over the past 12 or so years. I have seen several places that have promoted rank fast. And to me they handed it out For money not for what was earned. Also used to be if you was less then 16 years old you recieved a junior black belt and had to retest after you turned 16. We have 5 year old blackbelts out there now. When people get more down to not giving rank away . Then a blackbelt will represent more. A black does not mean you are a better fighter. It means you have pasted the required level of training For that style. I would hope a blackbelt in a style could out perform the lower belts in there school. But as proven many times learning the tools and being able to use the tools That takes some training to Like I was told over 30 years ago. If a person could just master the tools that is learned to just become a green belt they would be able to fight very well. And some of the better tools are learned after a first degrwee blakbelt ranking. Kind of like saving the best for last. But if given at earlyer training levels how much better would a person be After they had much more training time in developing the use of there tools. Its proven over and over a large amount of tools takes much longer to get good at. And many will never be needed in combat. As fighting is short fast and down to the getting it done and over. What you have is a short time to be effective. And thats use of common tools that work and have been tested. So a blackbelt is time and training. but a fighter is takeing the time to train to fight