I quit

[Tom Yum]

ksw,
I feel your pain. Make your school better, set the pace, be the exception not the rule. Be like a watch maker, take everything you've learned and dissect it. Put it all back together harder stronger and faster. Make it yours. Set the bar for yourself and be the one person that that everyone else aspires to be like. Your ranks will be earned and deserved. Thats what I love so much about Martial arts, What I've learned is mine and if I was stripped of all my worldly possessions you still couldn't take from me my second degree black belt, because i don't need to tie it on to be one, I trained hard and became one. Lend to the credibility of your school , your teachers and your system, and make peace with the fact that there will always be people who get undeserved promotions and credit where none is due them. Peace.

Shaolin-warrior, I am very impressed and humbled by your wisdom!

[Piston]

I think Shaolin here has the right notion. It may take you a while to find a new place, maybe an entirely new art. But NEVER forget what you have learned at this place and train it stronger and faster. Hell thats been the biggest improvement in my TKD, since I got my body opponent bag, building up the power, speed and balance of my kicks against the bag, adding small basic tweaks here and there. Its good that you had the nouse to realise you had outgrown that place, but don't forget where you started.

[brokenelbow]

The test was four and a half hours long. Cost $500 for mine and $250 for my wifes.

$750 to be tested? Forgive me but you were robbed.

[shaolin-warrior]

Broken elbow,
I know it seems like alot, But here in Connecticut retail space is like gold. Only the really good schools can survive. We must always remember that our dojo's are a buisness as well as a school. Our monthly tuitions are low and our lower rank belt tests are about $30. really afordable in my opinion. I have a family of four involved in Karate all at different levels and our monthly tuition is $150 bucks. The higher rank trests are more expensive, but you have to remember that they are few and far in between. Let me ask you, where do you live and how much do you have to pay. You aloso have to compare oranges to oranges, what does your school have to offer and what are the perks if you will.

[shaolin-warrior]

Shaolin-warrior, I am very impressed and humbled by your wisdom!

Thanks Tom, Ive lurked in the background enough to gather up pearls of wisdom for many people on this forum. It's starting to rub off.

[Hardball]

My Shodan Black belt testing fee was $100.00 and included a Heavy Duty Black belt from Japan.

[brokenelbow]

Let me ask you, where do you live and how much do you have to pay. You aloso have to compare oranges to oranges, what does your school have to offer and what are the perks if you will.

My black belt cost me nothing more than being a student of my instructor. What my instructor has to offer is a lot of real world experience that he wants to pass on. I don't know what you mean by perks.

I'm of the belief that a school charges a reasonable fee to train, but it's a silly thing to have someone who has already sunk a few thousand into their training to have to pay an additional $500 for a $3 length of canvas.

Just my opinion.

[DickHardman]

i like the fact that i dont have to pay for bs tests and promotions were i train. once our instructor feels you have earned a belt he will hand you one free of charge, ive never seen anyone forced to pay additional charges for being dedicated and earning rank.


it is my opinion that any school that charges for promotions is more concerned with making money than training good students and making sure they are effectively passing on their knowledge to worthy people who can continue teaching others.

[shaolin-warrior]

i like the fact that i don't have to pay for BS tests and promotions were i train. once our instructor feels you have earned a belt he will hand you one free of charge, Ive never seen anyone forced to pay additional charges for being dedicated and earning rank.


it is my opinion that any school that charges for promotions is more concerned with making money than training good students and making sure they are effectively passing on their knowledge to worthy people who can continue teaching others.

Does your instructor deserve to make a profit at his business? I 've been in business for myself for the last twelve years, and I like to make money. Don't get me wrong, I have many things that money can't buy, and understand their importance, but I also know that a 2000 square foot retail space in Connecticut costs about $3000 a month. I also know that I can build a house for about 140,000.00 but hope to triple that investment at closing. Does that make the homes that I build and sell jaded? Everything in this world has a mark-up, please don't think me so naive as to consider paying for a test fee lessens the integrity of my sensei. He has a wife and child like I do, a home, bills like everyone else. Sure he is a sensei, but most importantly he is a buisness man. He has an obligation to his family to support them in their lifestyle, and an obligation to ensure that he can keep the lights, heat and airconditioning running so that we have a good school with the proper equipment and conditions to train.

[DickHardman]

Does your instructor deserve to make a profit at his business? I 've been in business for myself for the last twelve years, and I like to make money. Don't get me wrong, I have many things that money can't buy, and understand their importance, but I also know that a 2000 square foot retail space in Connecticut costs about $3000 a month. I also know that I can build a house for about 140,000.00 but hope to triple that investment at closing. Does that make the homes that I build and sell jaded? Everything in this world has a mark-up, please don't think me so naive as to consider paying for a test fee lessens the integrity of my sensei. He has a wife and child like I do, a home, bills like everyone else. Sure he is a sensei, but most importantly he is a buisness man. He has an obligation to his family to support them in their lifestyle, and an obligation to ensure that he can keep the lights, heat and airconditioning running so that we have a good school with the proper equipment and conditions to train.

there are many instructors and gyms that dont require their students to pay for belts and promotions, only monthly dues. why train somewhere that requires you to pay for promotions when you dont have to?

[shaolin-warrior]

You just don't get it do you dick. I don't train in a gym or at the YMCA. And classes at the y are more expensive. What you pay is regionally based by the economy of the state or town that you live in. In Connecticut We have a mill rate on taxes based on per capita income. Everything here is way over priced and expensive because the earning potential for our citizens is greater here. Not unlike people on the west coast. I'm sure the cost of living is much higher there as lets say Ohio, or Alabama. My electric bill Evey month is about $275-$300. I pay $3700.00 a year in car taxes and the taxes alone on my house are $2100. every three months. A quarter acre building lot which is very small costs about $80,000. Paying and having to overpay is just the way it is. Five hundred dollars might seem like a lot of money, but in Connecticut it equates to half a weeks salary.

[DickHardman]

You just don't get it do you dick. I don't train in a gym or at the YMCA. And classes at the y are more expensive. What you pay is regionally based by the economy of the state or town that you live in. In Connecticut We have a mill rate on taxes based on per capita income. Everything here is way over priced and expensive because the earning potential for our citizens is greater here. Not unlike people on the west coast. I'm sure the cost of living is much higher there as lets say Ohio, or Alabama. My electric bill Evey month is about $275-$300. I pay $3700.00 a year in car taxes and the taxes alone on my house are $2100. every three months. A quarter acre building lot which is very small costs about $80,000. Paying and having to overpay is just the way it is. Five hundred dollars might seem like a lot of money, but in Connecticut it equates to half a weeks salary.

sorry bro, i just dont agree with having to pay for being a dedicated student. i will not train anywhere that requires me to pay my instructor for a test or a rank. thats just me though.

[Hardball]

Paying for testing fees and rank certificates is common practice throughout the martial arts industry. What is uncommon is the amount of fees. They can vary from state to state, from dojo to dojo, from dojang to dojang. If Shaolin Warriors school were a fraud do you think his 2nd dan test would have lasted 4 hours? No, they would have just taken his $750 bucks and given him the stripe on his belt. A legititmate Black Belt test has got to cost you something. From the way Shaolin writes I'm sure his years of study have cost him In Blood Sweat and tears. I know of people who's Black Belt test cost thousands it just depends on the locale of your school.

[DickHardman]

I know of people who's Black Belt test cost thousands it just depends on the locale of your school.

thats a shame, cause many people have gotten blackbelts without having to pay a dime extra for tests. my own instructor got his own bjj blackbelt from a gracie and im pretty certain he wasnt charged for his blackbelt, he gave back in other ways like teaching classes etc....

one of my close friends was close to getting his blackbelt in tkd, but he couldn't afford his blackbelt test. so he quit martial arts and become a cokehead instead

[shaolin-warrior]

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but my school has a lot to offer besides excellent instruction. We have classes 6 day a week, do as many or as few as you like. One open class a week work on what ever you want. NO CONTACT OR LIGHT CONTACT for the children's sparring classes. Full contact sparring classes for the upper ranks. Cardio classes three times a week. Weight training . Intramural sparring league with other state schools. This summer is our first summer long martial arts camp. Pro bono spots for children of single parent or lower income families. Demo team fully trained and trips sponsored by the dojo. Shaolin Kempo, five animal Kung Fu, ground fighting and grappling instruction. Weapons instruction. The curriculum is tough, our children are held to the same standards as our adults, you have to be able to make your techniques work on an opponent. It's not enough just to know them. when we promote, it's earned. Thats why we have such a high retention rate among or younger students. They are proud of their rank belts. We don't produce 10 year old black belts at our school, so when a fifteen year old young person earns the rank of Shodan, he earned it and has my respect. All of these things cost money and you can't put a price on turning out respectful young adults, the discipline and focus that they have taught themselves will allow them to excel in life. I can't tell you how many parents have commented on how lucky they feel to have found our school and the horror stories that they tell about other schools. Last word on this subject for me, but reference was made to instructors that teach for the love of the art. Thats great. But there is nothing better than teaching what you love and making a living at it. I wonder if I was an instructor at a school and hosted a martial arts forum you might see my point of view as at least viable? Peace, and time to move on. Thanks for all your great input. I'll bore you no more on this topic.