How do *you* grapple with a newbie?

[Tom Yum]

You shouldnt beat down newbies. You should challenge them though. The challenge helps them grow.

Some instructors are very watchfull and know when enough is enough for a newbie. They give good advice about how to take care of yourself while experiencing wear and tear from training.

They grapple and spar with you just at your level not trying to damage you, but enough to push you to your limits. You benefit the most from this type of training but you can't do it forever without the risk of burning out.

[osopardo]

Who ya callin' a pussy?

And how is a strong person weakened by helping the weak?

If you feel that training with someone who is weaker or inexperienced or whatever is beneath you, then by all means don't . But save the bullshit about "helping" them reach appropriate conclusions sooner?" You really aren't doing anybody any favors by discouraging someone before they even have a chance. I'm happy for you that you were able to hold your own against seasoned fighters when you first started as a raw inexperienced newbie.

Personally, I prefer to train with and go against others who are superior to me(stronger, faster, more experienced, etc.); that's how I improve my skills. But when I'm paired up with someone with less experience I tone it down to just slightly above their level. Any proficient fighter can do that fairly accurately if he's paying attention. And that wimp newbie who seems as if he's just not cut out for this sorta thing, just might blossom into a champion someday.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by osopardo
And that wimp newbie who seems as if he's just not cut out for this sorta thing, just might blossom into a champion someday.

Not if he's never truly pushed. Not if he never even knows what he's gettin' into just so you can feel good about yourself.

[osopardo]

Originally posted by jubaji
Not if he's never truly pushed.

Never said "never".

You push 'em hard when they're ready. You take 'em beyond their self-perception when they can handle it. Not when they first start out.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by osopardo


Never said "never".

You push 'em hard when they're ready. You take 'em beyond their self-perception when they can handle it. Not when they first start out.

If it's "when they can handle it" it's beside the point

[IPON]

I think in the first 2weeks someone starts you be easy (depending on thier skill and desire) after that I do agree to kick it up a notch!!

[osopardo]

Originally posted by jubaji


If it's "when they can handle it" it's beside the point

Right, if the point is to just get rid of them.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by osopardo


Right, if the point is to just get rid of them.

Great. Have fun in flower-arranging class.

[jaykay]

I've gotta say I agree with osopardo, and I think you have some whacked out ideas on how to treat beginners, jubaji.

When I started training in MA I was soft, weak and squishy. Now I like to think that I am harder and can take a beating - being 172lbs and grappling/playing randori with guys weighing from around 190 - 240lbs I take quite a bit of punishment.

I can tell you if I was treated hard when I started, I would have gotten badly injured and left with sour thoughts about the school. But they didn't smash me when I first started, they slowly ramped up the intensity as my skill and attitude changed.

And hell, I'm glad they did that. Any school that smashes newbies is a school of bullies.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by jaykay

When I started training in MA I was soft, weak and squishy.
I can tell you if I was treated hard when I started, I would have gotten badly injured and left with sour thoughts about the school. And hell, I'm glad they did that. Any school that smashes newbies is a school of bullies.

pussy

[adacas]

The only reason I can think of it being ok to go hard on a newbie is to separate the weak from the strong but that is just elitest. I can understand the needs for say the seals to go hard on people. It is a tough job and they can not have people on their team who can not take the punishment but training schools are not the seals. Schools have no reason to beat the hell out of their students unless they don't like having people come around and spending money on their business.

[gregimotis]

Originally posted by adacas
I can understand the needs for say the seals to go hard on people. It is a tough job and they can not have people on their team who can not take the punishment but training schools are not the seals.

Additionally, the special forces recruit from the regular military, where soldiers already have training, so even then people aren't being thrown into the deep end right away.

[Chriss]

Well..i think i am still a newbie (compared to others i have seen) but...when grappling with someone new..er.. then me, i unleash hell upon them! Then i teach them how i did it
It all works out well in the end.

[Cain]

I look upon myself as a newbie.. before I have won any major SW-fights, I'm a newbie..

[one sword]

However you guys do things in your school is up to your instructor or you if your the boss, but there are a lot of people out there who don't understand the level of work and abuse it takes to get good. When someone new comes to the club I am in, I generally don't throw him down as hard as I can, then start putting the crush on his lungs while I reach for an armbar I am going to throw on too tight. I save that for the other experienced fighters. I know that they want it, that is what level they are at. Some people come to the school ready, some don't; but none of us here make any presumptions. What I do do is take them down with a sumi-gaeshi or yoko-otoshi, something fast and deceptive, but not incredibly punishing. Then I just play with them. I don't have to tear him apart, I just flow outside of his ability. If he tries something, then I go into a better position with a counter or a roll or a guardsweep. This gives him an idea about how skilled someone can be without hurting him or scaring him away. It is also GREAt for crushing those people with badass written across their foreheads. Those people who have taken a few punches and think they are ready for a NHB match or a Manilla knife fight. hey don't know what to think when a guy that looks like a bean pole wraps them up tighter than jamaican spliff. These are the guys that WILL get themselves or other people hurt. You do have to train full contact at all ranges to get good, but doing it with inexperienced people is like putting policemen on the street who have never fired a weapon. Someone will get hurt. Don't kid yourself either, hurting a training partner just makes you miss out on more training. You have to have other people that will trust you to grapple with them or you won't be able to do it. If someone hurt me so that I couldn't work for a few days(I do construction, landscaping and odd jobs) than you are damn right he is not going on the mat with me again. He has cost me money I spent on class, training time in class, physical training time, and money I have lost becuase it takes me a week longer to paint a house or whtever. Going to hard is a bad problem. I don't no where these guys like Tito Ortiz come off with an attitude, anyone can get choked out by anyone any day of the week. I have heard that since I started training. It is true. Rickson Gracie isn't arrogant and he is undefeated. He knows that people who don't train hard have a lot of disadvantages, but he only comments on that. He doesn't boast about how hard core he is, he just trains really really hard, all the time. He knows who is at his level and who is not.

I have had one exception to this. There was a guy about 39 years old who came to my club. He was the most uncoordinated person I have seen that didn't have MD or polio. He could not realax on the ground, could not slap parry(pak sao), or set in a ckoke right after a month. He could not handle it and needed to go play tennis or something, not that he would be good at it. He held back three other new students becuase of his inability to learn and his unwillingness to train. He is the uberpussy. Not everyone that seems like a wuss is. Give someone the chance to find their fighting spirit and you will have a changed man on your hands.