Pankration: the best (M)MA ?

[Panagiotis97]

are you familiar with pankration?
could you say that its the base of MMA?

in ancient olympics the only rules were a)no bitting b)no eye gouging... pretty simple...

the winner was decided by a)submission b)opponent quit
c)oppenent's death

still i dont see and pankrationistas in NHB...
is it because its not that popular? or because the good athletes of pankration are interested in their own tournaments...?

pankration is like a combination of Muay Thai, boxing, wrestling, Judo, BJJ...

can you find a disadvantage about this MA?
except that you are going to be hurt a lot in practicing...
what MMA are better than this one...?

[Maxetai]

Panagiotis,
First of all there is no "better MA".
With that said, there are many people studying Pankration. "Shoot fighting" and "Pankrace" are among other names that it goes by-as far as I know-especially in Japan.
You have a point about Pankration being the "Mother" of MMA, as far as I'm concerned, and more credit should be given to Pankration.
There is this Greek-American Jimmy (Demitrios) Arvanitis living in the Boston area who has singlehandedly revived Pankration. Thanks to him and some others of course, Pankration is alive and will flourish in the future because it actually is by default a MMA. Check out Arvanitis and modern Pankration here: http://www.mutau.net/patriarch/index.htm and here : http://www.spartanacademy.com/ .

I've read in this forum Pankration mentioned by MuayThaiFighter as he practices Pankration in Canada. Perhaps MuayThaiFighter can tell us more in this thread about Pankration and comment on it. MuayThaiFighter trains (trained?) at this school: http://www.gibsonpankration.com/ .

Panagiotis, from your alias (forum name) I assume that you're Greek. I'm Greek also (Greek-American actually; have been raised and lived in America for 25 years), and want you to know that the Greek government isn't promoting "Greek Based Martial Arts" at all. I know this from personal experience! I came to Greece in 1996 with dreams of opening a school with "Greek Based Martial Arts System" and the authorities would not give me a license in order for me to open the school here in Thessaloniki and Katerini (Where I'm originally from)! I was told that I have to write a book, submit it to the General Sports Secretary in Athens. Have a committee created that will review the book and interview me and see a demonstration by me, and then after 5-10 years they would decide to grant me a license to teach or not! But if I were bringing a MA from Asia or another part of the world, I could have my license in a matter of a few hours! I don't want to get into more specifics right now about this as I am in the process of registering my MA and perhaps someday I will be able to teach it officially. For now, I must relocate to the USA (as I am also an American citizen) if I want to teach this "new style of mine". My wife is German, we have two kids, and it's difficult right now for me to just "get up and move" as their lives will also be effected. It's really sad.

There is this sport that is called "Pankration Athlima" (Pankration Sport) but it really has nothing to do with the Pankration that you and me are discussing about here. First of all there are no strikes, as far as I know! Forget it.

All I can say is that it's no accident that Jimmy Arvanitis lives in America and teaches and promotes Pankration from over there and not from Greece. Perhaps he can also comment on Pankration if he's reading this.
Panagiotis, send me a PM (Private Message if you wish). Perhaps we can get together here in Thessaloniki!

[Panagiotis97]

i think that the greek goverment doesnt promote anything that its greek... but thats another story...

i am from sparta, the place where pankration was born,
there is a girl who is champion but the state doesnt recognize her title and wont let her get into TEFAA...
if she was a Tae Kwon Do champion she would be helped every possible way...

[Panagiotis97]

greek based martial arts?

besides pankration what are the others?

you are talking about boxing, greco-roman wrestling?

[Maxetai]

I'm talking about my own MA. It has many Hellenic elements in tne names and terms. It's a modern MMA with the Free Spirited Philosophy of the Ancient Greeks (Hellenes).
It's clearly a MMA since I have borrowed from many styles. You know, whatever works, use it philosophy.
What sets this MA from others is the structure (the syllabus) of learning, and the methods of learning. It's unlike any other style, as the philosophy of learning is totally different. The fighting techniques I use are scattered everywhere in other styles.
I can't really get into details here for obvious reasons. The emphasis is on Combatives, meaning Self-Protection above everything else. Of course all ranges of fighting are covered (kicking, punching, trapping/clinching and grappling). Applied Psychology along with fitness and diet/nutrition are also a big part of this MA. Along with Self Protection, Self Improvement/Development is also emphasised and part of the system. Increased Awareness of the Being is the primary goal.
Perhaps I will be able to teach it officially in the near future: as early as this upcoming spring or as late as the Fall of 2004.
What I am working on is a different approach this time. Instead of trying to get a license to open up a 'MA School', I am in the process of setting up a 'Cultural Club' (Politistikos Syllogos in Greek). This way I should be able to get the license to open the Club. I don't care for tournaments as this MA is not geared for that. It's clearly a Combative, Fighting Art. It's Sports aspect will be presented/introduced when certified individuals open their own clubs, and so we can "compete" among each other. It's sport aspect is unlike any other "fighting sport" be it Boxing, Thai Boxing, Wrestling, Judo, Savate, MMA Competitions (UFC, K-1, Pride, etc...), etc...
Of course, once the club opens, I will personally invite any Martial Artist/Fighter from any style to come and work out with us, either to compliment his present style or to start this style or to even make an arrangement and work out and sparr with me and other members. This is the only way I believe one learns to really fight and protect himself and loved ones. You won't learn much as Thai Bri- senior member in this forum- repeatedly says with cooperative partners in training. And I dare to add that you must face other practitioners from different styles and sparr with them "day and night". You must experience variety, and learn from this variety or else you might be surprised/shocked or worse dead!
Enough said for now Panagiotis. I am also in the process of registering the name (Trademark) so I can't even mention the name yet.
Hopefully soon I will be in a position to make "the announcement". This has been a dream of mine for some years now!

P.S. Pangiotis, you are lucky to live in Sparta! You are at one of "The Sources" my friend! I have been there for a brief visit in the summer of 1993, and have only great memories of the city and its' people. I swear I met more people smiling and being polite in Sparta than I did in all of Athens (or Thessaloniki for that matter)!

[jubaji]

Originally posted by Maxetai
I'm talking about my own MA.

huh?

[Maxetai]

Originally posted by jubaji


huh?

Where's the confusion? MA styles are born by individuals perhaps on a daily basis. Of course only a very very few stand up to the test of time and are accepted by people. Survival of the fittest my friend. If you think you got what it takes you do what you gotta do, and if you're good or at least many people think you're good congratulations, you're the founder of a new MA.
Can you say Funakoshi, karno, Ueshiba, Bruce Lee...etc.
What makes you think you are different or worse or less able or whatever from them and so many others? Well, you're not! You are just as worthy since you like them were born a human on this Earth. What you do is up to you. I know what I'm doing, at least if for no one else at least for myself.

[Nick]

...

Save the speeches for when you kill a bull with your bare hands.

Later...

[Maxetai]

Re: ...

Originally posted by Nick
Save the speeches for when you kill a bull with your bare hands.

Later...

Killing bulls is not on my agenda or in the syllabus of my MA. That was Master Oyama's agenda I believe. Talk it over with him.

So Nick, where's the speech? Do you live in Greece? Have you tried to open a MA School over here that doesn't originate from Asia or recently also from Brazil? Have you
applied for a license to operate a MA School but they turn you down because you don't have a Physical Education degree?
And Nick, Have you asked the above questions to the authorities on why this discrimination against Greeks and Greek ideas in Greece and all you get is a smirk and this answer: "Don't mind why we favor the foreigners to open schools here and people like you are discriminated against. If you want to operate a school, find someone with a "recognized" MA and team up with him.
Don't get me wrong, I respect and admire all MA from Asia and Brazil. It's the authorities here in Greece that do their best to stifle any sort of progress and development. I believe that Panagiotis97 mentioned this further up this thread.

Nick, and for any "Nick" out there, I do what I do. I will continue doing it and developing it. I will do my best to open my own MA School with my material to teach. If it means that eventually I will relocate back to the U.S. then so be it.
People have the right to check out what I have to offer. If it's worth it to them great, we both benefit. If they think that I offer BS (that's Bull Shit as your above statement about bulls) and that I ain't worth a damn, then believe me the word would travel fast in all directions.
I invite you and anyone else if in Thessaloniki, Greece to send me a PM (Private Message), and I'll make arrangements to meet you and even invite you over for a get together and some workouts (sparring, etc...). Who knows, maybe I will learn from you. That's how I see it Nick.
The ball is in your court, I'll be waiting for your PM.
This is not a challenge. It's an invitation of one Martial Artist to another. My intention is not to impress or intimidate, but to share. That's what it's all about; at least for me.

[Rudolphuss]

Someone should film the encounter.

[Maxetai]

Originally posted by Rudolphuss
Someone should film the encounter.

What encounter? I am inviting you to come to my own house, workout and spar together and share martial/fighting knowledge and you call this an encounter? Man, some people just can't accept an honest invitation in good spirit. Anyway, be my guest Rudolphuss and bring a friend with his camera and if he doesn't have a camera he can use mine), or a friend of mine with a camera will come.
I usually want to do this anyway. I film many of my sparring sessions and analyze them later.
It's simple what I'm saying: If you are ever near where I live, drop me a line and perhaps we can work out together. No pressure, no hype, no nonsense. If you are so much better than me, then great! At least I'm going to learn something.
I'm not claiming to be a bad ass. Just a person involved in the Martial/Fighting Arts for 27 years now (since I was 13 years old) and now I'm 40 years old.
You don't have to come as this is not a challenge to anyone out there. Good luck with whatever you're involved with and I wish you the best.
Enough said. I believe I've been clear enough about this and I will not bother to discuss it further. There is nothing more to say from my part.
Thank You

[jubaji]

Originally posted by Maxetai

Where's the confusion? MA styles are born by individuals perhaps on a daily basis. Of course only a very very few stand up to the test of time and are accepted by people. Survival of the fittest my friend. If you think you got what it takes you do what you gotta do, and if you're good or at least many people think you're good congratulations, you're the founder of a new MA.
Can you say Funakoshi, karno, Ueshiba, Bruce Lee...etc.
What makes you think you are different or worse or less able or whatever from them and so many others? Well, you're not! You are just as worthy since you like them were born a human on this Earth. What you do is up to you. I know what I'm doing, at least if for no one else at least for myself.

Seek professional help immediately.

[Infinite4Light7]

ill spar with you. i like to work out alone but we could exchange and discuss regimens. where do you live? i got confused. america? greece? im in michigan 50 miles outside detroit 2 miles off lake st clair.

[Maxetai]

ill spar with you. i like to work out alone but we could exchange and discuss regimens. where do you live? i got confused. america? greece? im in michigan 50 miles outside detroit 2 miles off lake st clair.

Infinete4Light7, Thanks for your sincere reply. I live just outside of Thessaloniki, Greece. Thessaloniki is the 2nd largest city of Greece. It's located in Northern Greece in the region called Macedonia. If you are ever in Greece, let me know by sending me a Prvate Message PM) through this forum. I will also keep you in mind, and if I'm ever in the Michigan area I will let you know.
Thanks again.