how do you know that your training is real?

[tekshow]

by real i mean effective. who do you test your effectiveness on? is it people in your school, outsiders who are trainined, tournaments.


beyond that how do you define if it factually based within your system. do you know it's muchado jujitsu because you've seen UFCers from similar lineage going at it?


how do you apply what you learn?

[doubleouch]

Good question Tek, this seems to be the defining question for alot of arts. I have been thinking alot about this one. It all comes down to performance. If your venue, or what you are training for, is self defense then how do you measure your self defense performance? The best way to measure performance is to perform the event that you train for. This is difficult in self defense training. In sport training this is easy to do. If you train for boxing then get in the ring. If you train judo, then have a judo match. Easy to test. I train mainly BJJ right now, so I test my effectiveness by sparring BJJ. I spar people of different skill levels, different sizes etc. Since this is the realm I'm training for I can measure my performance easily. I don't train for self defense anymore because it was just too hard to measure. I think my gym stresses performance rather than self defense for that reason.

[S.Anucha]

doubleouch:

"....so I test my effectiveness by sparring BJJ. I spar people of different skill levels...."


Listen mate, I dont mean to sound like I am attacking you or whatever, really I am not.

sparring and fighting are very different from each other. I have sparred grappling and I have fought using grappling, not BJJ but it was standup grappling... what I notice is that during a fight it is way tougher grappling than when I am sparring, it is way more draining and way more complicated in a fight than when I was sparring. I have had 4 competition fights in Muay Thai, standup grappling is part of Muay Thai competition, a lot of my fights have been spent in standup grapple, I also train very hard in standup grappling so am fully aware of the difficulties and stresses of standup grappling or grappling... it is the same, phyisically, both standing and on the ground.

My last comments were made so as to reassure you that i know what grappling is like.

Now to test ones skills in real time you must fight! in BJJ I am aware that you assess individual skill level by "rolling" with higher grades, are these fights? probably not but merely friendly sparring sessions, no one is going hell for leather or seriously trying to hurt each other, the fight attitude is not present.

Sparring is not like fighting, training is nothing like having a fight in real time, no matter how hard you hit each other in sparring it is nothing like a real fight. Grappling in training is not like grappling in a fight, nothing like it, I find it way tougher phyisically in a fight than in sparring....


....my point is, you are not testing your fighting skills when sparring, in BJJ your technique skills are assessed in sparring sessions with higher grades but in a fight that higher grade may flop because of fight nerves. Some people perform great in sparring and during training but when its time to fight they freeze, maybe flail, flop under complete exhaustion, even if they are superb BJJ black belts but have never fought in their entire life, when they do actually fight they may fall because of inexperience in actually fighting.

You only test your skills when fighting. then do you truely understand what it is you are learning and why you do such things in the way you are trained.

to fight is to know and undertsand, training and sparring is preparation for that fight. Nothing more and nothing less. preparation.

You may disagree, I'd like to know why, thanx.

If you wanna test yourself take yourself to a competitive arena and get a fight!!!

Just my opinion.

[gregimotis]

DoubleOuch's main point is still valid, though. In order to test your effectiveness, you first have to define what you are training for. Then you have to come up with a proving ground - in the case of competitive arts it's easy, just compete. In the case of Self Defense it's much harder

[Szczepankiewicz]

SAnucha, nowhere in DO's post did it say anything about him 'training to fight'.

So I disagree with your entire post due to the fact that it addresses nothing in the thread.

***

Tek,

That's an easy question. If you are getting into altercations then you're self-defense skills suck. Self-Defense is Avoidance, Awareness and Escape.

Avoid problem people, areas and situations.

Be aware of who, where, and when these situations are likely to occur.

If you've arrived at a juncture where you have to get physical you messed up many times along the way.

****
However, I do see the point of your question. How do you know if the physical skills are going to be effective when the time comes? The only answer I have is train, train, train. You have to structure your training so it is simple and allows to you deal with the Adrenaline Pucker Factor.

I don't currently train to this level. It's hard to do.

If anyone ever figures out how to do this well, they're gonna be wealthy!

Spanky

[Seifer2399]

If you are getting into altercations then you're self-defense skills suck. Self-Defense is Avoidance, Awareness and Escape.

Avoid problem people, areas and situations.

Be aware of who, where, and when these situations are likely to occur.

If you've arrived at a juncture where you have to get physical you messed up many times along the way.

****
The only answer I have is train, train, train. You have to structure your training so it is simple and allows to you deal with the Adrenaline Pucker Factor.

Spanky

Ah, great point about the avoidance of a fight.

Can you explain the Adrenaline Pucker Factor? That's a new one to me.

Best regards,

Seifer2399

[S.Anucha]

SAnucha, nowhere in DO's post did it say anything about him 'training to fight'.

So I disagree with your entire post due to the fact that it addresses nothing in the thread.

***

Tek,

That's an easy question. If you are getting into altercations then you're self-defense skills suck. Self-Defense is Avoidance, Awareness and Escape.

Avoid problem people, areas and situations.

Be aware of who, where, and when these situations are likely to occur.

If you've arrived at a juncture where you have to get physical you messed up many times along the way.

****
However, I do see the point of your question. How do you know if the physical skills are going to be effective when the time comes? The only answer I have is train, train, train. You have to structure your training so it is simple and allows to you deal with the Adrenaline Pucker Factor.

I don't currently train to this level. It's hard to do.

If anyone ever figures out how to do this well, they're gonna be wealthy!

Spanky

I thought he was asking how does he know his art is effective in a fight. he doesnt ask that though. haha.


hmmm.... it seems I cant read either. lol