Should you get your instructors permission to train at another style/school?

[crosstrainedwar]

I have heard that some instructors will get offended if you study another style or train at another school without his or her permission. I can understand this if you are a beginner or intermmediate student. However, if you have spent a number of years with an instructor, I do not see why he would care. I also think that it is unrealistic for an instructor to believe that one style is enough for self-defense. What are your thoughts about this? Thanks in advance.

[eXcessiveForce]

It is polite and respectful to ask for permission. A good instructor should not hesitate to give his permission.

Sometimes your instructor may even be able to help you find a good school that compliments what he is teaching.

Other times he may be able to give you what you are looking for and may simply have not shown you it yet.

I often encourage my students to go to other school, but I ask them if they see anything good to bring it back to our school so that we may take advantage of it.

[Thai Bri]

Bollocks to the instructor. You are a paying customer, and you can buy whatever you like from anywhere else. All this "Master/Student" stuff is the veil with which some trap us into parting with more of our cash.

[Szczepankiewicz]

It's not 'master/student' you knob.

It's 'teacher/student'.

I agree with XF. It's common courtesy to tell your instructor.

My instructor discourages any cross training until you have a good foundation of our art.

After that you can cross-train, and he will advise you on what to check out and what to avoid. Some arts are easier to understand in terms of Kantan, so if you are going to cross train, it's best to fully understand your base first.

As a Brown 1 I trained in Judo and it scrambled my brains.

As a Brown 2,3 I trained in Judo, BJJ, Hapkido, Liuhebafa, and Dim Mak.

With a solid foundation, I am able to pick out what is useful, practical, and realistic, and leave the rest.

After I become Shodan, crosstraining in other arts is required.

I'm thinking of taking a sebatacle and training in some Bitty Foo.



Spanky

[ryanhall]

I'm with Bri on this one. Though it may be respectful to ask a teacher, it is certainly not required. Moreover, if he/she complains, then that's their problem. You are a paying customer and you can do what you want with your time/money. However, it wouldn't be a bad idea to consult w/ your instructor or other students before selecting another school to train at--they may have some insight that could be helpful. However, it should be perfectly clear that you are not asking for their permission.

[Szczepankiewicz]

I never thought I'd see the day when you agreed with Bitty.


BTW - have you seen your new title at Martial Direct?

[ryanhall]

I never thought I'd see the day when you agreed with Bitty.

I know--I'm off to drown my sorrows in some pre-St. Patty's Day Guinness .

BTW - have you seen your new title at Martial Direct

That's friggin hilarious, dude. Once again, one of the usual suspects.

Bitty's is even better. "Not banned...yet"

[IPON]

I'm with Bri on this one. Though it may be respectful to ask a teacher, it is certainly not required.

Well I agree with both of you. This is actually a question I ask upfront but it is always an indicator of how realistic or unrealistic a instructor is.

[squidd]

i think it depends on what kind of relationship you have with the one teaching you. a couple of posters have already showed that it can be, and i paraphrase loosely, master-student or instructor-customer.

if the relationship is, at bottom, a financial transaction, then i suppose there should be no commitment beyond paying on time. but when there is relationship on a personal level, going behind the back of the "master" or not factoring in the "master"'s input in deciding to take another martial art may smack of betrayal specially to those that are rather sensitive.

[eXcessiveForce]

it's simple courtesy. You do the same thing with music lessons. Or other sports. I think if you were training with Ajarn Chai or Richard Dimitri that you would let them know you were headed out to train at the local street fighters anonymous club.

Also if you go to another school and get hurt your instructor may be upset if it was a school known for hurting students. It's not so much permission as courtesy.

In my BJJ class some guys obviously started training with a different instructor. They brought back some stuff to try on the class and the instructor noticed it immediately. The new stuff didn't work and as they tried to force it our instructor made them pay. Each week they came in with new stuff and each time he made it tougher on them. Finally they fessed up and he told them nothing is wrong with learning new stuff but you have to know if the stuff is worth learning.

I have had several students train with other instructors with no problem but every once in a while they come back with ideas about throwing 720 jump spin kicks on the street or something. It takes a few weeks but we get it broke out of them.

Also if it is just a financial transaction then there is no loyalty. which means the instructor may just tell you not to come back. Wouldn't it be a shame if you were working out with someone like inosanto and just because you didn't show him courtesy he decided not to let you train with him anymore.

I don't know about the other instructors here but I know I do not have to train anyone I do not like. So I have asked people to leave. I've even refunded their money and told them to get out before. One student was made to train in the parking lot because he was disrespectful and disruptive. He eventually earned the privledge of being able to train inside the school again.

The point is discuss it with your instructor. If your instructor says no, ask him why. And then make your decision.

some people come in at white belts and think if they train in 3 or 4 systems at the same time they are going to get really good. Usually they just end up sucking in all three. So I discourage low ranks from seeking outside instruction but encourage them to go observe classes. High ranks may go train at other school an are encouraged to do so as well as seminars.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Amen XF!

Amen!

[Serrada]

I think it is completely up to you. I have always done this and have been training and teaching and teaching and training since 1988. Don't lie if your instructor asks, but my experience is most instructors are a little insecure and will continually bash the other art and tell you why theirs is better. So, I don't recommend telling your current instructor unless you want your current instructor’s opinion about training in another art that might have similar principles and concepts to your current art. Though, most people don't train in similar arts anyway. You probably know exactly the other art you'd like to train. For example a shotokan person might want to do judo to add more grappling to their art. For me it went from karate to kung fu to fma to bjj to full contact kickboxing to more fma. I now teach fma and am trying to work on a schedule to try some Mauy Thai boxing. That mine.

[doubleouch]

I train at Straight Blast Gym with Matt Thornton. One of his policies is that students are free to train wherever they want! In fact one of the bylaws to be a SBG international school is that they don't restirct students in any way. No questions asked. We have students who train with other gyms in town and it hasn't been a problem at all. In fact it has helped the game of everyone else. They often bring a different flavor of things to the gym. There is no real good reason for an instructor to forbid his students from training anywhere else. If you are taking someone's curriculum and giving it verbatum to another club then there might be an issue, but barring that why should they care?

[Szczepankiewicz]

DO,

I like how you say 'there is no good reason' and immediately give a good reason.

All,

This issue is about common courtesy. Sure, you don't have to tell anyone anything. And since we are living in the MTV What About Me, Me, Me generation the only person you have to worry about is....

There is a certain amount of trust that builds in the teacher/student relationship. I've read many posts where people complain about getting crappy treatment from their instructor. No one likes to be disrespected. All of us have different value systems. If you want someone to treat you with respect, you treat them with respect.

If you were on an athletic team and you went and practiced/played with another team, even if that team isn't in your conference, what would your coach and teammates think of you? How would you feel if one of your team did that to you?

You owe nothing to anyone to which you do not expect something in return. If you have a strictly business agreement with your instructor then you are in a bad MA situation to begin with.

I would not train with anyone who discouraged cross-training. If you do mention it to your instructor and he/she has a problem with it, that's a strong indicator that you need to find yourself a new instructor.

[doubleouch]

I don't understand the logic that it is disrespectful to not inform your instructor that you also train somewhere else. How is this disrespectful? If he asks and I lie, then maybe so. Can it be disruptive if someone brings in techniques learned somewhere else? Sure. Can it be helpful? Sure. As an instructor you should deal with what happens within the walls of your gym and not try to tell your students with whom and where they can spend their time. The sports analogy doesn't quite hold up because MA is not a team sport. You might compare MA to individual sports like boxing, tennis, golf etc. Do those guys train with more than one trainer? Who's business is it if they do?