Fake BJJ black belts???

[wardancer]

Yes a lot of people simply promote there belts so they can teach other people. Although it would be better if they simply teach and admit they are of a lower belt level than just get promoted for no reason.

We have that same problem in New Zealand.
Lots of good hard training guys that are genuine about opening a BJJ Club because there is none available with qualified instructors (outside Auckland where I train).

The last I remember they were like blue belts running thoses clubs and now they are getting promoted to purple belt level. I know they compete overseas and train in Australia on a regular basis.

However, I really do not know how long they have been training.
Their chief instructor is from overseas (Australia).

There might be some politics involved in such promotions but I still admire them for running their BJJ Dojo even if they were Blue Belt or who knows maybe white? (and they most probalby get lot of critics for that) because there were no other alternative clubs in the city they live in.

Afterall, once you form a team you will get more financial power to host good seminars with international instructors. They did host a seminar with Royler Gracie this year. So yes, definitely a thumb up for such admirable effort!

But receiving BB for running a club by political reason is still a big no..no..
Some Karate association have done that and that did not work out..

[IPON]

There might be some politics involved in such promotions but I still admire them for running their BJJ Dojo even if they were Blue Belt or who knows maybe white?

Are you serious? Why would you admire somone teaching a style when they are not qualified. So if I spend a year training in BJJ it would be OK for me to start taking students money and teaching BJJ. This is where the MCdojos start. I understand BJJ is not everywhere but the answer is not some training with sub par instructors is better than no training at all.

[wardancer]

Are you serious? Why would you admire somone teaching a style when they are not qualified. So if I spend a year training in BJJ it would be OK for me to start taking students money and teaching BJJ. This is where the MCdojos start. I understand BJJ is not everywhere but the answer is not some training with sub par instructors is better than no training at all.

Yes, IPON
I do admire them for their BJJ development. As BJJ, I will need to compete with them to see their standard.

But before getting alll upset, I have my reserve about them.

Our consumer expection is to have a BB running a Dojo.

There is only 2 only BB in BJJ in New zealand and they are running my club. Auckland is the city has a third of our our national population. The rest of the country is relatively small.

There is a demand for BJJ club in the 'country side'.

Those guys are genuine and are from good MA pedigree (some of them have well established Dojos from MMA over many years(Muy Thai/K1 background).

They have the guts to run Dojos with their colour belts level (they do not wear BB as expected and get get a lot of bad response for it) and still go fight in Australia and train with their own overseas master. they had a Royler Gracie seminar ( the legend came and train them) and promote BJJ well.

They do not compete at our BJJ OPEN competition (hosted by the only Brazilian-born/trained BB) so I can not tell about their team level unfortunitly. But we are KEEN to compete if you get an invitayion but that would be another topic really?.

Most probably, we will win.

We won the team trophy on our competition: the fact they did participate in the first national OPEN BJJ tournament is their own political problem.

It might lead to Mc Dojo for them, who knows?

[bjjbeijing]

There is no faking in BJJ. The whole point of BJJ is for the instructor to get on the mat and roll with the students. If the instructor is not rolling with his students, then it's not a BJJ class.

As for belt promotions, nobody promoted the Gracies except for themselves. They proved their worth by getting on the mat and rolling with their students and with each other. As a person trains and rolls more, he's going to pick things up naturally on his own. This happens not just in BJJ but in many other styles as well... So as long as he's technically proficient and is good at communicating that proficiency to others, it doesn't really matter what "color" belt he is... I've learned plenty of things from "blue" belts...

Train hard!

[DrAgOn-T]

well now I know for certain my instructor is a black belt

[Toudiyama[NL]]

One question: Is there a program to teach the blue to black belt to be an instructor?
If no then in my opinion all are not very qualified as an instructor, just because you can roll or even if you are a champiion, doesn't mean you are a good instructor, it isn't like that in other areas of schooling, or are university graduates also teaching at the same university?

Teaching is a seperate profession which involves several things not directly present in MA ( appart from Psychology and Physiology, I do not know the english names for them)

the absence of such a program will eventually lead to McDojo.s even in BJJ

oh another question popped into my mind: will a person that knows 3 or 4 techniques but is strong as hell and therefore hold his own during sparring, still be promoted if because of his stregth he can defeat the black belts?
If so what's his worth as a teacher/instructor?

[falcon3624]

I have no problem with a blue belt giving instruction on grappling. Don’t call them an instructor though because they are nothing more than a coach. The thing I do have a problem with is a blue belt putting on a black belt and pretending to be something that he is not. I know that my instructor is a black belt because you can trace his lineage, but I know of two instructors in my area that wear and claim to have black belts in BJJ and both of them are blue belts.

[bjjbeijing]

One question: Is there a program to teach the blue to black belt to be an instructor?
If no then in my opinion all are not very qualified as an instructor, just because you can roll or even if you are a champiion, doesn't mean you are a good instructor, it isn't like that in other areas of schooling, or are university graduates also teaching at the same university?

Teaching is a seperate profession which involves several things not directly present in MA ( appart from Psychology and Physiology, I do not know the english names for them)

the absence of such a program will eventually lead to McDojo.s even in BJJ

oh another question popped into my mind: will a person that knows 3 or 4 techniques but is strong as hell and therefore hold his own during sparring, still be promoted if because of his stregth he can defeat the black belts?
If so what's his worth as a teacher/instructor?

Toudiyama,

I think you raise a very interesting and valid point. I agree that not all great fighters make great instructors, and vice versa. However, with the exception of a few teachers, I don't think that there is actually an academy or teacher that specifically teaches the student to teach. There are exceptions to this rule of course. Rather, most teachers teach in the same manner that they were taught in. It would be great to have a formalized system for obtaining a "teaching" certificate in jiu-jitsu, rather than just get a black belt. There are many great teachers who don't have formalized teaching certificates, as well as bad ones of course.

I feel the university analogy you raised is not a good one, since many professors have obtained masters or doctorate degrees in their chosen field, math, biology, etc... and not actually a masters or doctorate degree in education. So the same would apply for the average university professor. The PhD in chemistry is recognized as a subject matter expert in chemistry, and not exactly as an expert in conveying the subject of chemistry to their students. I remember having some horrible teachers at university who were recognized as bad-asses in their field, but they were horrible at communicating their ideas and thoughts to the students.

I think that all good teachers have some common traits... understanding of the subject matter, patience, and the ability to break down complex issues into easy to understand concepts. Furthermore, all good teachers should recognize a student's individual strengths and weaknesses, and help that student set firm and attainable goals and also formulate a plan to help the student reach those goals.
__________________

Finally, if a person is winning his sparring matches using brute strength, then he should definately NOT be promoted. Afterall, he's not demonstrating technique, right? I believe that most average-sized BJJ black belts would be able to hold their own against an opponent who purely uses strength to win his matches. I'm not saying that the black belt would tap the strong guy, but I think that the black belt would be able to rely strictly on his high technical knowledge and skill to at least prevent himself from getting tapped by a guy who knows only 3-4 moves.

Just my 2 cents...

Peace,

Andy

[IPON]

I feel the university analogy you raised is not a good one, since many professors have obtained masters or doctorate degrees in their chosen field, math, biology, etc... and not actually a masters or doctorate degree in education.

Perhaps but many of these pple who whish to enter academia where teaching assistants prior to graduation so it is a valid analogy.

What I cannot understand is why a white belt would be permitted to open a school. It is not just about patientce and caring of teh student but teh technical development. There are may a McDojo where theinstructor is caring and is genuinely not trying to take advantage of teh students. They may be a 1st dan but they are not truly qualified to teach. Teaching requires a great deal of experience in your style, gen3erally people learn by instructing in their school and THEN after a period are permitted to open thier school, this isn't followed by many and it's this lack of quality control that we have McDojos. With BJJ it is no different, someone that know nothing of grappling of course will learn from a white or blue belt that is true for most arts but thier is a cieling for growth.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

In my country but also in countries like France most major organisations have a instructors course
This has been the fact since judo was organised, perhaps, the others just took the example of the judo assoc.
Every organisation that wants goverment recognition has to haave one and it must be of a certain standard
And even then they don't teach you everything, it was ffor my current job when I was trained to be a mentor for Technical support specialist that I even added something to my knowledge, in particular, that people learn in different ways, one may learn best by listening, another by seeing or by doiing
This is why some poeple like a certain instructor but others think he sucks
Teaching like your teacher did isn't the best way just because you learned fast because chances are you both learn best in the same way

In the Karate instructors course we were pushed to come up with our own excercises to do things and to llok at how other instructors would do it and let yourself be inspired by that
even for assistant instructor you already had to visit other schools and attend one of their trainings and write a report about it, the teacher of the school ( should be a licenced teacher) then has to sign for aproval

I know the Judo assoc system is about the same and most likely the TKD assoc also does it this way because the 3 were once 1 assoc

Oddly enough the judo assoc started out as 2 different assocs but both had a teachers course in the 50's, well I'm thankfull for that, it set an excamplle for those to come

[bjjbeijing]

Perhaps but many of these pple who whish to enter academia where teaching assistants prior to graduation so it is a valid analogy.

Ipon,

The professors were indeed at one time, teaching assistants. Becoming a teaching assistant is basically a pre-requisite of your graduate school. The masters or doctorate degree candidate is a grad-student... He helps the professor grade papers, lead discussion groups, and answers the questions of the undergrad students in class. How is that any different from a purple belt or brown belt who is also helping the black belt by answering questions and running classes or teaching privates, etc...?

The professor did not receive a doctorate degree in teaching, rather they received it in chemistry. The doctorate degree recognizes the individual as a subject matter expert in chemistry, and not as a subject matter expert in "teaching chemistry" to another individual.

The black belt is recognized as a subject matter expert in Jiu-jitsu. He hasn't received a certificate in "teaching jiu-jitsu" just like the Phd hasn't received a degree in "teaching chemistry." And just like the professor who was once a lowly grad student, the black belt was also once a lowly purple belt.

Peace,

Andy

[wardancer]

One question: Is there a program to teach the blue to black belt to be an instructor?
If no then in my opinion all are not very qualified as an instructor, just because you can roll or even if you are a champiion, doesn't mean you are a good instructor, it isn't like that in other areas of schooling, or are university graduates also teaching at the same university?

Teaching is a seperate profession which involves several things not directly present in MA ( appart from Psychology and Physiology, I do not know the english names for them)

the absence of such a program will eventually lead to McDojo.s even in BJJ

oh another question popped into my mind: will a person that knows 3 or 4 techniques but is strong as hell and therefore hold his own during sparring, still be promoted if because of his stregth he can defeat the black belts?
If so what's his worth as a teacher/instructor?

I will have to agree with you.

Good fighter does not mean necessirally a good teacher. e.g some talented soccer players sucks at coaching.

The amount of techniques a sucesfull BJJ fighter will use at will is relatively small.

In France, you need to sit a exam from the state to be able to teach MA the legit way: such curriculum requires first aid, counselling, coaching skills etc..on top of your own paritcular MA skills. Such exam is just a way to 'wave' away the 'loose guns'.

Some coachs are power and sucess hungry: they will only care for their own winning 'protege'.

[wardancer]

There is no faking in BJJ. The whole point of BJJ is for the instructor to get on the mat and roll with the students. If the instructor is not rolling with his students, then it's not a BJJ class.



Train hard!

Not too sure,
My BB instructors roll with us.
But They also told us that in Brazil, BB Instructors do not roll with the white belts.
I guess we have a shortage of colored belts in our club.
Cheers,

[wardancer]

Perhaps but many of these pple who whish to enter academia where teaching assistants prior to graduation so it is a valid analogy.

What I cannot understand is why a white belt would be permitted to open a school. It is not just about patientce and caring of teh student but teh technical development. There are may a McDojo where theinstructor is caring and is genuinely not trying to take advantage of teh students. They may be a 1st dan but they are not truly qualified to teach. Teaching requires a great deal of experience in your style, gen3erally people learn by instructing in their school and THEN after a period are permitted to open thier school, this isn't followed by many and it's this lack of quality control that we have McDojos. With BJJ it is no different, someone that know nothing of grappling of course will learn from a white or blue belt that is true for most arts but thier is a cieling for growth.

I understand your point IPON. And as I read this thread, I start to realize a few things also.
But having a blue belt running a Dojo because there is nothing else avalaible is still valid for me. But that is not the case, we have two Brazilian Born and bred BB in Auckland that can teach them if they wanted to. But they rather belong to an overseas master.

My Brazilian Instructor invited them at our first National open BJJ Championship: they turned it down saying they only take part in tournament hosted by their overseas master. And so far i have not seen them coming around our Dojo for classes. I am sure it will more benefiting for them to come for afiliation and classes than having a overseas master. So there you go, it smells like Mc Dojos!

Of course, if somebody tried to open a Dojo in Auckland in such way, he will have a hard time trying to prove his credibility as a BJJ Team Leader.

[DrAgOn-T]

people still bow? whats wrong with a simple "wassup?" thats usually how we do it in Alaska.