Style in the Martial Arts

[CKD]

Basking in Reflected Glory (BIRGing). Tying one's self-esteem to the success of one's idol. Look for the psychology research for details.

Just because one learns BJJ doesn't mean that s/he is as good as Royce Gracie.

Granted, Royce Gracie is very good. However, not everyone learning BJJ is a superman.

That was a joke you know I think everyone knows that martial arts are no garuntee to supermen. Besides that was Rickson Gracie.

[sherwinc]

That was a joke you know I think everyone knows that martial arts are no garuntee to supermen. Besides that was Rickson Gracie.

it is not a joke cause i see there is a reason, and theres a point also.....

[Ronson]

I know you keep saying you're not knocking BJJ and that you practice it yourself, BUT it' so obvious that you ARE knocking BJJ. Your comments to the previous are liken to, "I'm not knocking African-Americans, in fact I have a friend who is African-American."

It might be due to late night posting but I'm about to blow your argument out of the water and I welcome your response (Pls. understand this is an debate and not an attack and I welcome your response)

1. Style is like a coach to basketball

No, a MA style is basketball and the coach is there to provide a (hopefully successful) gameplan to execute. In a game situation, Jackson is there not to teach Kobe or Shaq how to dribble, shoot, or pass. They already know the fundamentals. The coach is there to provide a gameplan for specific situations. Just like how Randy Couture has a different (in most cases) gameplan when fighting different opponents (just think how differently he is preparing for Vitor than Tito; employing a strategy that maximizes his strengths and minimizes his weakness (if there are any hahah)).

2. Athleticism is Huge!
I agree 100% with you here. The BULLS would be nothing w/o MJ (I won't use the LAKERS in this case, this year hahaha). But what happens when two opponents have parity in all areas of athleticism? The DIFFERENCE is the STYLE and GAMEPLAN, i.e. Tito vs. Randy - both have phenomenal athleticism re: cardio, strength, agility,.... The difference? Style and Gameplan - superior Greco-Roman

3. "I used my size and strength to beat people who had been doing it fo years"

To say this proves the ineffectiveness of BJJ is silly. You admit freely that it you were victorious bc you were BIGGER and STRONGER than your partner. Would you have been victorious relying on your strength and size if your opponent was equal with you in size, strength, and athleticism? I don't think so. You would lose to the more experienced Blue Belt. On a side-note, if you're using size and strength to win, your not doing BJJ and your doing your self a diservice by not working on technique. If a bigger and stronger opponent beats me in grappling it means only that and that their technique sucks bc when an opponent of equal athleticism but inferior technique goes ape shite on me, it's my equally returned size, strength, and application of TECHNIQUE is what is going to win out.

4. When I tried MMA/NHB I got beaten by people who didn't do BJJ for more than one year, but were stronger and more athletic.
Still does not argue against the importance of knowing grappling/submissions in MMA. I'll go on a limb and say you were not beaten in MMA only bc they were stronger or even more athletic. When someone has a superior style, in employing and applying effective techniques, and you're on the receiving end, that person will damn sure seem more athletic and stronger (through dominant positioning, leverage of technique, and again also athleticism). It happened to me when I used to roll with a guy who had more experience - I was gettin' tapped left and right and I though damn, this guy feels so strong and heavy (but guess what? we were about the same size). As I progressed, I was able to eventually tap him for once and guess what? he didn't feel so strong and heavy anymore.
BJJ in not a complete fighting system and even BJJ BB in MMA will admit to it

5. I'm just tired of the loudmouths who think they wear a blue belt and the rest of the world is toast.

There's is actually a good reason behind this inflated attitude bc it has been proven and documented that BJJ is one of the most dominant styles of MA. Here's how: when pitting pure MA styles (BMMA - Before MMA times circa 1994) and all other things being equal, grappling/submission styles dominate over striking arts and non-combative styles (notice I said dominate and not "always" bc everyone gets "caught" - just that the numbers don't lie and I'd rather go with the numbers and lay aside conjecture.

6. I'm just tired of the loudmouths who think they wear a blue belt and the rest of the world is toast.

Dude, leave your ego at the door and don't worry about tapping/beating someone or tapping/losing yourself - it's about being humble and learning. I tap all the time in class and I don't give a shite bc each time I do it's a learning experience. Seems to me you've just had a bad experience with a "Blue Belt" and are just sour about BJJ. Will a hug help?

[Nothingness]

if it doesn't work at all
then find a new hobby

As long as the person is happy, then it is good to keep coming. Hey, some need to talk, you know. Plus, the cost is cheaper than a therapy and you get a cardio workout, too.

Just don't tell the person that there is this forum. He will stop practicing and just visit here all the times.

[Nothingness]

That was a joke you know I think everyone knows that martial arts are no garuntee to supermen. Besides that was Rickson Gracie.

No worries, man. I am just a bit tired of such and such person basking of such and such system bla bla bla. Peace

[wardancer]

Since people are still talking about style vs. style, let me share my insight. A style is what a coach is to a basketball or football team. The style provides the plan and strategy, but the players must have the ability to execute. This is why I say style means very little, unless the person is athletic and has the ability to fight.

I'm not knocking BJJ... I do it myself and it's great... I'm just tired of the loudmouths who think they wear a blue belt and the rest of the world is toast. That's simply not true.

When it comes to BJJ, I think people should mouth off about their BJJ Team's records and 'exploits' rather to 'ride' the popularity of BJJ.
I also hate when people are using references to others success to make themselves more popular: people should not blow on others trumpets (meaning taking credits for the sucess). e.g typical syndrome, my MA/master/lineage is better than yours! If that the case, go prove it in the competitive environment...
Afterall, you can do BJJ but that do make you invicible or any better than other MA just because some brazilians have been winning on the MMA circuit (and they are not winning as often as they used to!).
For me, if somebdy does BJJ, I am keen to hear about how is him and/or hisBJ Team/Club is doing on the competition level/stuff they pratice at he club.
The rest is only cheap talk!

[CKD]

it is not a joke cause i see there is a reason, and theres a point also.....

Whats the point? On a side note I think another factor of success in mma is having something that other people do not know. For example Marcelo Garcia won the Abu Dahbi with his X Guard technique he created. Everyone was confused. BJJ fighters in the early days could take stand up fighters down with ease and the rest of grappling styles lacked something compred to BJJ. Mostly the guard but also wrestling has no subs, sport sambo no chokes, judo no lower body submissions ect.

[m.artist]

As long as the person is happy, then it is good to keep coming. Hey, some need to talk, you know. Plus, the cost is cheaper than a therapy and you get a cardio workout, too.

Just don't tell the person that there is this forum. He will stop practicing and just visit here all the times.

like i said
find a new hobby, one that you will commit to 100%

[fullcircle]

Uh, Phil Jackson's triangle offense didn't work.

[wardancer]

i believe you can only classify something when you know how good you are at it
if it works for you, then it's self defense
if your good at competition, then it's sport
if it doesn't work at all
then find a new hobby

I would disagree with such statement M.artist.
I do not beleive in self defense theorists and their self-defense theories.
I only believe in what I see like what people can achieve/do in real competitive MA enviroment: it can be a MMA like pride, UFC etc.. or a simple local BJJ open tournament.
The rest is only cheap talk for me.
And I do respect pstevens for stating why is his BJJ experience is not working for him. He might have piss-off and irrate some readers but at least he does not have as many illusions about BJJ as some of the readers do!

[m.artist]

hey, don't get me wrong
i said his post was a wise one
i was replying to sherwinc post though
not pstevens