How to block the cross...

[Ahoym8e]

How do you guys do it?

A right cross, for example: I deflect it with my left hand to make it go over my right shoulder, step in and throw my own right cross inside his arm. I throw it high to cover against any left hook that he might throw at my head.

I've seen some muay thai instructional material that recommends "blocking" a right cross by just taking the impact on the forearm (no deflection). It's a Muay thai world champion teaching this, so there must be something to it.

What do you guys think?


p.s. "gals" are aways included in my "guys"

[nwtogame]

What angle is it coming, how is he standing did he start it off with a left jab? All need to be addressed, thats a hard quesiton to answer being so vague. Are you sparring and looking for a knockout in MT, boxing, grappling also (NHB)?

[Ahoym8e]

What angle is it coming, how is he standing did he start it off with a left jab? All need to be addressed, thats a hard quesiton to answer being so vague. Are you sparring and looking for a knockout in MT, boxing, grappling also (NHB)?

It's coming straight on. If I'm standing around while he works his way over to my left then shame on me. I'd then have to cover like against a hook and simply cover with my left hand and forearm.

Right cross implies he is standing left foot forward.

It can start with a left jab or not. If so, I've lightly swatted the left jab out of the way with my right hand. I suppose the jab usually sets up the cross or whatever else.

Let's say NHB to not overcomplicate things with rules.

I was mainly curious about absorbing the blow as opposed to deflecting it. I'll try to fing the video...

[metaljkd]

more ways

1) "blocking" a right cross by just taking the impact on the forearm (functional)
2) I deflect it with my left hand to make it go over my right shoulder, step in and throw my own right cross inside his arm. (to little functional)
3) Deflect it with my left hand to outside and other blow
4) Bong Sao ( way of Jeet Kune Do) (to little functional)
5) "blocking" a right cross by just taking the impact on the forearm ( way of crazy monkey) (stance crazy monkey)

[Ahoym8e]

found it...

http://groundfighter.com/uploads/videos/MuayThaiVol1.ram

[Ahoym8e]

more ways

1) "blocking" a right cross by just taking the impact on the forearm (functional)
2) I deflect it with my left hand to make it go over my right shoulder, step in and throw my own right cross inside his arm. (to little functional)
3) Deflect it with my left hand to outside and other blow
4) Bong Sao ( way of Jeet Kune Do) (to little functional)
5) "blocking" a right cross by just taking the impact on the forearm ( way of crazy monkey) (stance crazy monkey)

what?

[Ahoym8e]

Ok, just had this in a private class today, and sometimes there's just no time to do anything but take the impact on the forearm. Especially if the cross is in the middle of a combination.

[Lost Ronin]

It seems to me like you are more into blocks and parries than head movement. I personally prefer to use slipping and sometimes weaving against straight punches. Why? Moving out of the way is less painful and usually leads to better counters than a simple parry. Let me give you some examples of what I mean.

#1) You and your opponent face each other left side forward. Your opponent jabs at you, a good response would be to slip to the outside and then tag him with a right hook to the body. Slipping to the outside makes it much more difficult for him to hit you with a rear hand strike. The hook to the body can also go to the head.

#2) Let's say your opponent attacks you with a one-two. How would you know it he's gonna do that? Simple, by reading his hips. If he wants to tag you with a left-right then he would usually step forward and twist his waist slightly to his right as he jabs. This movement would set up the perfect opportunity for a counter waist twist which would result in him letting that cross fly at your face. Slip to the outside of his jab, immediately weave under his cross in a CONTROLLED MANNER. Don't get too low on the weave or he'll snap your head down and front headlock you or knee you. As you come up during the weave let loose a left hook to his head and follow it up with a straight right.

#3) If your opponent simply starts off with his right hand (i.e. he crosses without a jab) then he's either an idiot or Muhammad Ali. I'm not banging my own drum or anything but I'm fast, and I still wouldn't do that unless it was a counter. The subtleties of the counter right cross is a post for another day. Anyway, you could slip to the inside of his cross and let loose a right uppercut to his chin and then a left hook to his head. Also, this is supposed to be MMA right? Nine times out of ten you see a cross coming a mile away, just tag him with a teep kick ( Thai Front kick) to the body.

I cannot overstress the importance of good Boxing in MMA. Head movement and counter punching are skills that are indispensable for the martial artist or MMA fighter. They have to be TRAINED however, you just don't develop them. Also, the sequences above are very generalistic. I don't know where exactly the guy is so keep that in mind when it comes to slipping. Sometimes you have to take a step forward or backwards in order to find your "shooting range." Muhammad Ali would actually take a step backwards and let the attacks fall short a little before retaliating. This is known as "long rhythm" and it only works if you have long arms and fast footwork.

This is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to counters. Taking the shots on your forearm isn't exactly a bad thing. One such Boxing tactic is known as the "Armadillo Defense", where you take shots on your forearms while covering your face and "walk through" his straight punches in order to tee off with hooks. But I only do that with people that don't punch very hard. My brother weighs 265, fights off a converted south paw stance and has a mean right hand. I wouldn't try that shit on him even if you paid me! I hope I helped you. Train hard.

[Ahoym8e]

It seems to me like you are more into blocks and parries than head movement. I personally prefer to use slipping and sometimes weaving against straight punches. Why? Moving out of the way is less painful and usually leads to better counters than a simple parry. Let me give you some examples of what I mean.

#1) You and your opponent face each other left side forward. Your opponent jabs at you, a good response would be to slip to the outside and then tag him with a right hook to the body. Slipping to the outside makes it much more difficult for him to hit you with a rear hand strike. The hook to the body can also go to the head.

#2) Let's say your opponent attacks you with a one-two. How would you know it he's gonna do that? Simple, by reading his hips. If he wants to tag you with a left-right then he would usually step forward and twist his waist slightly to his right as he jabs. This movement would set up the perfect opportunity for a counter waist twist which would result in him letting that cross fly at your face. Slip to the outside of his jab, immediately weave under his cross in a CONTROLLED MANNER. Don't get too low on the weave or he'll snap your head down and front headlock you or knee you. As you come up during the weave let loose a left hook to his head and follow it up with a straight right.

#3) If your opponent simply starts off with his right hand (i.e. he crosses without a jab) then he's either an idiot or Muhammad Ali. I'm not banging my own drum or anything but I'm fast, and I still wouldn't do that unless it was a counter. The subtleties of the counter right cross is a post for another day. Anyway, you could slip to the inside of his cross and let loose a right uppercut to his chin and then a left hook to his head. Also, this is supposed to be MMA right? Nine times out of ten you see a cross coming a mile away, just tag him with a teep kick ( Thai Front kick) to the body.

I cannot overstress the importance of good Boxing in MMA. Head movement and counter punching are skills that are indispensable for the martial artist or MMA fighter. They have to be TRAINED however, you just don't develop them. Also, the sequences above are very generalistic. I don't know where exactly the guy is so keep that in mind when it comes to slipping. Sometimes you have to take a step forward or backwards in order to find your "shooting range." Muhammad Ali would actually take a step backwards and let the attacks fall short a little before retaliating. This is known as "long rhythm" and it only works if you have long arms and fast footwork.

This is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to counters. Taking the shots on your forearm isn't exactly a bad thing. One such Boxing tactic is known as the "Armadillo Defense", where you take shots on your forearms while covering your face and "walk through" his straight punches in order to tee off with hooks. But I only do that with people that don't punch very hard. My brother weighs 265, fights off a converted south paw stance and has a mean right hand. I wouldn't try that shit on him even if you paid me! I hope I helped you. Train hard.

What an awesome post. Thanks for all the good information.

Help me with #1

I step outside his jab and hit a right hook to the body? That sounds awkward, and like it's bring me in really close. Do you mean tap the jab to my outside (to my left shoulder), step in and throw a LEFT bodyblow?


#2, 3 - Stepping inside a cross is something I;ll get comfortable with over time. I can step into a wide swing, haymaker type deal, but so far I have develped comfort in deflecting the cross to my inside (or "armadillo-ing" if there's no time).

Thanks again for the great post

[Lost Ronin]

You are welcome Ahoym8e, thanks for the props. Let me go over some key pointers to make your slipping effective:

First off, in Western Boxing "slipping" is a controlled movement of the head in a downward diagonal path. In other words, you are just moving your head slightly downward and to the side in order to make the straight punch(es) miss. So technically speaking, you are just moving your head and shoulders slightly, no footwork. This is what I call the "perfect scenario", (i.e. the ideal way to perform the slip.)

If performed properly you are not going to be on the side of your opponent, you will find yourself on the "inside" of his now retracting jab. In order to get into his punch like this you probably are gonna have to take a subtle step forward with your left foot. This takes lots of experience and timing and is developed after lots of hard sparring. You are in perfect position to land a brutal right hook at his exposed left side, think ribcage or kidneys.

The slip is a simple but complex move to master. For example, if your opponent has more reach than you you will usually step forward while simultaneously slipping in order to get into infighting. You can also perform the slip from a standstill and simply let the jab fly by as you deck him with your own counter jab. Or you can step backwards and slip simultaneously if you are trying to get away. Its kinda difficult to explain without pictures. But imagine this.

SLIP TO THE OUTSIDE:

From the left foot forward stance. Your opponent jabs at your head, you step forward slightly and bend your lead leg a little bit as you move your head and shoulders diagonally downward. The movement is performed with your hips moving the rest of your upperbody, not the other way around. If performed properly your body will be "outside" of your opponent's, he's gonna have a hard time hitting you with his rear hand. This position lands you perfectly by his body, making the hook a perfect choice.

SLIP TO THE INSIDE:

Slipping to the inside as a response to a cross is relatively safe, since his left hand can't hurt you that bad. Slipping to the inside of a jab is a lot riskier because you might slip into an uppercut. But that only happens if you slip to the inside *everytime* your opponent jabs at you. You want to avoid becoming predictable, I rather be predictable offensively than defensively. Mix things up a bit, parry some of the jabs, slip others, etc. Anyway, same concept as slipping to the outside. Except that instead of moving your upperbody towards the outside you are moving towards your opponent's center. You'll wind up staring right at his centerline, use the upward momentum of your body and tag him with a left uppercut to the chin.

I hope this helps. A good resource to check out is Don Familton's superior Boxing tapes. They are full of good info. Don't hesitate in asking any questions. Train hard, later man.

[Ahoym8e]

#1) You and your opponent face each other left side forward. Your opponent jabs at you,...

I took another look, and that is the part I missed. I thought you recommended sliping to the inside of the right cross and throwing a right bodyblow hook, which would be mechanically difficult.


I agree with everything in your last post as well. I am still new so I do all my "slipping" to the outside, in an attempt to make it difficult on the opponent to strike me with anything but a backhanded chop. Not that it works all the time...

I thinnk I've seen snippets of the boxing videos you recommend and agree that they are excellent.

Thanks
TimK

[osopardo]

Kudos to all of you! This is the first intelligent thread dealing specifically with matial arts techniques that I've seen around here in a long, long time.

[doubleouch]

The slip and parry work great if you have good boxing atributes. For most of us we don't and don't have the time and energy to put into making them work well. Go into a martial arts gym and watch the sparring and see how many guys can make slipping and parry work for them. Not many. If you look at Rodney King's Crazy Monkey you will find a very reasonable alternative that is easy to learn and works very well against boxers and MMA athletes alike. Best of all it isn't atribute based and can be used effectively by most anyone.
If you have the time and energy and attributes to make the slip and parry work for you then by all means go ahead and use it.

[Lost Ronin]

I took another look, and that is the part I missed. I thought you recommended sliping to the inside of the right cross and throwing a right bodyblow hook, which would be mechanically difficult.


I agree with everything in your last post as well. I am still new so I do all my "slipping" to the outside, in an attempt to make it difficult on the opponent to strike me with anything but a backhanded chop. Not that it works all the time...

I thinnk I've seen snippets of the boxing videos you recommend and agree that they are excellent.

Thanks
TimK

You are welcome Tim. I agree with you on the fact that the hook would be difficult to pull of in such tight space, that is why I recommended the uppercut. The uppercut is made for infighting, it comes from underneath and derives its power from leg drive and hip rotation. Hone your right uppercut and you will have a weapon of mass destruction at your disposal .

When I first started sparring I used to hate slipping punches, the thought of having that punch so close to my head without anything to absorb some of the damage scared the hell out of me. This drill really helped me out with that.

"ONE HAND" drill:

Have your partner put a heavy Boxing glove on his lead hand. His job is to jab at your face singly, with no fakes. Your job is to slip the punch with minimum head movement. " Make him miss by an inch, not by a mile" is a tenet that I always think about when slipping or doing any head movement. At first start off slowly, then increase the speed and circle around each other as he punches you. The key concept here is that there should be no rhythm, your partner should actually try to punch your face (wear a mouthpiece when you practice this, trust me.) He should also throw the jab at random intervals, nothing repetitious or pre-arranged.

After you become more skilled at this, let him fake you out sometimes. You're gonna get zapped a couple of times, and it ain't gonna tickle, but that's part of fighting. Also, remember to "feel" where your body is at in relation to the punch. This is called "kinesthetic perception" and it was one of the cornerstones of Bruce Lee's fighting theories. Later on, add crosses into the mix. Add counterstrikes to your slipping and you are well on your way to becoming a good Boxer. Hope this helps, good luck man.

[Lost Ronin]

The slip and parry work great if you have good boxing atributes. For most of us we don't and don't have the time and energy to put into making them work well. Go into a martial arts gym and watch the sparring and see how many guys can make slipping and parry work for them. Not many. If you look at Rodney King's Crazy Monkey you will find a very reasonable alternative that is easy to learn and works very well against boxers and MMA athletes alike. Best of all it isn't atribute based and can be used effectively by most anyone.
If you have the time and energy and attributes to make the slip and parry work for you then by all means go ahead and use it.

Tim,

Listen to doubleouch. The man knows what he is talking about. The crazy monkey is an awesome technique and it kicks ass! I bought the Singer Brother's DVD and they showed some of it, it is an excellent deflection technique and I am thinking about incorporating it into my training. I've been setting some money aside for a while and I can't wait to get my hands on Rodney Kings Streeboxing videos. They are so worth it!

Double ouch, I see that you are from Oregon. Have you trained with Matt Thornton at the Straight Blast Gym? He is one of my martial arts heroes, I spoke to him once on this very same Forum. Real nice guy, straight forward and down to earth. Also, would you mind giving some pointers on the Crazy Monkey? Great thread we got going on, later.