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Even in Brazil Duarte never won anyhing. Ask most Brazilians and they will say he is a clown with no technical skills.
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I'd look at records that you could verify. I wouldn't think that any number of "fights on the beach" would qualify. Were do would you stop? The time that you got kicked in the nuts in elementary school or maybe that time you smacked some kid on the knuckles with a licoln log in kindergarden? Hell my daughter would have would have a better record than me (counting my legit matches, she's never had a mma match) and she's going on four.Comment
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I found the thread that discussed this topic of Rickson's "record":
and here was Helio's quote aboute his son's "Record":
SOURCE:
Gracie Jiu-jitsu Advanced
Volume 4.
An interview with Helio Gracie
"Well, I would say that I have had about 50 professional fights in my life in both Brazil and the few times Japan. I know Rickson likes to say he has a record of 400 fights, but if you go by the way he counts I would have a million fights.
He had 2 fights in Brazil and then maybe 4 or 5 matches in Japan.
Amateur fights, tournament matches, tapping out your students in class, little kids playing... who counts that stuff? Rickson maybe, but I would never count that towards my record.
What am I going to do? Count the 20 or 30 students in my class that lost to me each day? That would be silly. I would have well over a million fights then."Comment
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I agree with Helio on Ricksons record. But check out what Gokor claims his record to be http://www.gokor.com/about.html 2,400 matches. Including those in an unknown martial art known as Armenian Jiu-jitsu. In his bio it claims his opponent Maeda had 200 wins no losses but from what I heard he was a pro wrestler and that was the only mma match I could find that Maeda had.Comment
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Is there any interview with Ron Trpp commenting on how he beat Rickson? I am suprised he is not as well known.Comment
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Oh man...haven't seen you post in awhile...maybe one of those damn bastards won...I just got bit all over tonight, and I'm beginning to worry about malaria and west nile virus.Originally posted by NHBMARK1Comment
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Originally posted by gracilva
Theres no one thats beat him, except for a guy last name Tripp in a Sambo tournament. in which RIcksons back touched the mat and he was immedietly disqualified.
He was world BJJ champion for 16 years and never lost a match.
He is the best BJJ practioner ever. Period.
I dont know where 400 comes from, who was 239 and who was 398 and who was the famous 400????? lolComment
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Originally posted by CKD
He beat rickson in a sambo tourney, taking rickson down, and ricksons back hit the mat, an immediete loss. Rickson claimed he was never told that was the rules, funny, Rickson was the reigning Sambo champ at the time, how could he not know the rules, he lost. His brother Mark Tripp told me about it before, mark is a judo guyComment
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That's funny, counting pro wrestlings wins of Ken Shammy. I never heard Ken boasts about his win in pro wrestling(except when he was in pro wrestling) while in MMA. But Rickson and his family boast about his 400 something wins. Blame his family too, their the ones who said Rickson is the best fighter in the family. Rickson fought patsies, yea he did beat Hugo Duarte, but the Gracies are the one boasting about Duarte anyway. Duarte got beat by Tank and Mark Kerr. Rickson beat Takada, a legend in Japan, but a legend in pro wrestling. Rickson have not face any quality opponents. At least Rickson steps up to the plate against Sakuraba and Matt Hughes. Rickson is a BJJ legend, but not in MMA.Originally posted by ddriveComment
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I believe Rickson's record to be quite a bit overexagerrated (sp?). Given I agree with OmaPlata that he is one of the best BJJ practitioners ever. I have a great amount of respect for Rickson as a grappler and as a teacher. However, I don't think "unofficial" challenges on the mats at your school should be tallied in the W category. If I counted every training bout I ever had or challenges from my friends in my garage, I would be like 50-23 (just a guess I have no honest idea how many training bouts I have fought and I am sure their are more losses) in submission wrestling. I mean cmon, that's just absurd. In my opinion if it is not an official match it doesn't count on your record... Just my 1.5 cents....Comment
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Actually, there was a website that stated all of them (with the Tripp match as a no-contest).Originally posted by OmaPlata
Yes, even 239, 398 and the famous 400, but the site was taken down for some "strange" reason.
Thanks for clearing everything up though.Comment
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#239 Shugami Omosho July 19th, 1979Originally posted by OmaPlata
#398 Bono Rendietat June 5th, 1987
#400 Iku Shohei August 28th 1987
And I am not saying that all of the recorded "wins" are genuine, #473 was Royler Gracie on April 29th 1999 (I know this was a demo . . . you can view the video on youtube.com), then again I also know that he had more than one "match" that isn't listed including on against Walt Bayless (sorry, don't know the year).
I also have to say that I've never heard Rickson or anyone close to Rickson make the claim about the number of wins. Maybe he has made the claim but I've never heard it. Personally, I think the claim was made by a rabid Rickson nutrider and the "issue" has been kept alive by Rickson Haters.
And even if he did make the claim we have to remember that it doesn't include NHB/MMA matches only. The list includes BJJ matches, and more BJJ matches than anything else.
And is it really that unusual for someone to put together 400+ wins in a competition career that spanned almost 30 years? At 400 wins (I think the number is actually closer to 486 with 484 victories, on loss, and one draw) over 30 years that means he only had to win 13.333 matches a year or just over one match a month. Adjust that for 28 years (1972-2000 against Kilpatrick in 1972 and Funaki in 2000) and he only needs 14.28 matches a year. If my record is correct then that would jump up to 17.36 matches a year over his 28 year record as a competitor. And how is 17.36 matches a year unbelievable? I had 6 matches in one day during my first tournament . . . so how is 17.36 matches spread out over 365 days anything shocking or even impressive?Comment
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DJ its not shocking, 400 fights or victories isn't the issue the issue is did they occur as sanctioned fights or even underground toughman fights. When someone says 400 and the father says "not even close" it is suspect. doesn't mean that rickson isn't a beast but let have the truth if anyone cares about thatComment
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I can guarantee that many, many of the fights (actually the vast majority of them) on the record on my site were BJJ matches, some were NHB style challenge matches, and I think I'm actually missing 5-6 of his MMA matches.
And how was the question posed to his father? Was he asked "has your son had around 400 matches" or was he asked "has your son had 400 MMA fights" I don't know but I'd like some clarification if anyone has a copy of the original source.
The truth is that 400+ matches over 30 years, when you go to several tourneys a year and fight several matches at each tourney, just isn't that incredible. And, to make it worse (or better, depending on your point of view) has anyone ever actually heard the "400" number come out of Ricksons mouth? I haven't.
And why doesn't Gokor (who claims 2400+ "no rules" fights) get this kind of heat?Comment
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