Subs against much bigger opponent

[billzbjj]

I'm really interested in how bjj can be used to beat a much bigger opponent. I tried a few moves with a friend whose much larger - I'm 10 stone 5 9 and hes about 15 stone 6 3 and got a few submisions to work, best were arm bar and triangle. Also let my nephw put a few holds on me - hes 11 and not much over half my size, and was able to tap me out properly with armbar, but not with aything else. So i think that bjj is most effective when it uses the legs, but this is also a problem. In a real fight you would probably want it finnished before you are in that kind of position, and at school people think you weird if you use things like armbar, triangle. You need something to scare people awaay from the start, and here i think boxing is better. It's just if that doesnt work and your in a corner that bjj might be useful. But goinig back, do people agree that armbar is the most efficient sub, against much bigger people if you get to use it?

[TylerDurden]

Most armlocks and chokes work well against bigger opponents, leg locks can be dicey and neck cranks are almost useless against someone much stronger than you.

Be careful that your opponent doesn't lift you in the air and slam you Rampage style while trying for a straight armbar though. Really the smaller guys I train with do better trying to get someone's back and working for chokes. Quickness and flexibility help alot there, and it's much harder to be punched when you have someone's back.

[JaredExtreme]

What in the blue hell is a STONE?

[TylerDurden]

It's an old english unit of measurement, and for some reason they think people in other countries know what it means. 1 stone = 14 pounds

[billzbjj]

It's an old english unit of measurement, and for some reason they think people in other countries know what it means. 1 stone = 14 pounds

I thought as u guys have pounds u have stones too!!! Most weighig machines in uk have both stones/pounds and kilos. Thats really funny!

[TylerDurden]

Americans don't even know kilo's for the most part. Pounds is pretty much it. So stone is as obscure as hundredweight or a tod over here.

[billzbjj]

Science?

Most armlocks and chokes work well against bigger opponents, leg locks can be dicey and neck cranks are almost useless against someone much stronger than you.

Be careful that your opponent doesn't lift you in the air and slam you Rampage style while trying for a straight armbar though. Really the smaller guys I train with do better trying to get someone's back and working for chokes. Quickness and flexibility help alot there, and it's much harder to be punched when you have someone's back.

Maybe your right about the rear chokes. i wonder if anyone's ever done a scientific test of efficiency of different subs?

[MrPoopy]

Sounds like you are all too young to be playing around with BJJ. Are you learning these moves from a qualified instructor?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

try outpunching a guy twice your size and see how far that gets you

remember, size is a huge factor in any confrontation. grappling evens the field but they still have a physical advantage.

[J Rockwell]

To be prepared for any kind of "street" confrontation, you need to be versed in striking, clinching and hitting, takedowns and takedown defense, positional escapes on the ground, hitting on the ground, submissions, etc. And that doesn't even include weapons, mulitple opponents, environmental factors, legal factors, etc. Really, it's depressing. You could spend your whole life training for a street fight that may never happen if you just use some awareness.

Honestly, that's why I think a lot of people who don't fight/compete get so amped up about being ready for "street fights". They train really hard, learn some really brutal stuff - and they never have a chance to test all the stuff they've learned. They never get to see if it really works, and to see/show how good they really are! It's very understandable that they start sizing up guys down at the pub and imagining how they might kick their ass -or worse yet, actually picking fights- but in the long run, it's probably not as healthy. (Please no-one take this personally, this is just a broad paintbrush generalization, not talking about anyone on this thread.)

All that being said, when it comes to grappling - Chokes, chokes, chokes! Blood chokes work on everyone, whether they're big, small, on drugs, whatever. No oxygen to the brain equals a knockout, so that's where I place a great deal of emphasis on in BJJ training. Two big strong guys accidentally got choked out at my gym in the last few months - they tried to hold out and defend just a wee bit too long - and man, is it something to see! They go completely limp, then their legs twitch around a little bit. One actually foamed at the mouth! Not many of us had seen someone choked out before, so we were concerned for their safety of course. But after they came around, it was once again reassuring to see that Jiu-jitsu works!

Armlocks are good, but strong guys can often power out of them when they're fresh. And when things get sweaty cuz you've been fighting for more than 1 minute? Forget about it, that armbar is gone. Plus I don't want to have to take 10 minutes to wear this guy out if we're wrestling on concrete. Also, many people can take a broken arm and keep fighting. Tim Sylvia, Jacare, and others have shown this recently. And they weren't even on PCP. Well, maybe Tim took just a little...

Also, attack from top position. BJJ is known for its guard, but the positional dominance it teaches from the top is a huge part of the art as well. Using technique and leverage, a smaller guy can hold down and dominate a much larger person. I would never fight from my guard in the street unless I had to, and I would never go for an armlock that would put me at risk of losing position. Americanas and Kimuras from top control are high percentage and low risk. Add a side choke (arm triangle) into the mix, and you've got three great attacks you can use from mount, crossbody, half-guard top, North/South, and others.

If you want to work BJJ for street/self-defense applications, I'd recommend focusing on these areas:

1. Positional escapes from the bottom (put A LOT of time into these - every position, have two or three escapes you can use in combination)

2. Guard (closed guard with head and arm control, spider guard to defend the ground and pound, standing back up from your guard, taking the back, two or three sweeps, the triangle choke and how to recover your guard if it gets passed, the guillotine choke, and an armlock or two)

3. Positional dominance from top positions (if you are a small guy, you probably need to work a floating top game, but also be able to apply tight pressure from the top. This is where you want to be attacking from in any streetfighting scenario that involves you being on the ground - so once you get this guy down, you are not going to let him reverse you!)

4. Submissions from the top (once again, pick two or three high percentage, low risk subs from each position. Low risk means if you miss, you are still on top!)

I listed guard work before dominance from the top because until you have been training for a while, you may not get the opportunity to stay on top for very long. Obviously, you should also be training takedown defense and takedowns so you can dictate where this fight takes place. But you will be much better off supplimenting with wrestling or judo than BJJ for that particular need.

Sorry for the long post!

Jeff

[Hermosa]

I'm really with Jeff on this one. Getting the choke is the original masterplan of jiu-jitsu. You really could have a totally functional game with the back choke as your only tool. In a way this is how jiu-jitsu should be played..for every position there is..a better one exists, except if you have the guy's back...thats home. You can't improve on that position.

I think that armlocks and triangles on huge guys can be difficult, I've never really not been able to choke, especially if they have ANY kind of collar. Its definately nap time!