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Besides the person who teaches at Renzo, I've only seen one other. BJJ is good, but there are no strikes involved..........and that sort of concerns me. Yes you can take MT or boxing, but what about strikes while on the ground?
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Well, that's because Vale Tudo is not a martial art, it's a type of competition. Maybe i'm wrong thoughOriginally posted by dkm
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As var as Vale Tudo as an art . . . Marco Ruas calls what he teaches "Marco Ruas Vale Tudo," for him it is a style; however, in general it is just a style of competition.
Find a school that supports MMA/NHB and the same schools will support competition in Vale Tudo. Every single BJJ school in the state of Utah, that I know of, trains athletes for NHB/MMA/Vale Tudo.Comment
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I think what you really mean to ask is why aren't there more schools teaching mixed martial arts?
Not every martial art embraces this competition, or even its sort of training, since most martial arts schools are "traditional" they don't train like MMA. NYC if full of karate, TKD, Judo, kung fu schools etc....
There are a few progressive or modern martial arts schools in NYC, but then there is a second point. To be a reall MMA school, you have to have an ongoing competition team, you have to have guys and gals going out there and competiting, and testing and keeping the fighting spirit up.
It isn't easy to do, and it's hard to get that culture started in a gym. Obviously, BJJ has that culture and so the BJJ schools have mixed martial arts feel, classes and culture. Renzo is top dog of BJJ in NYC, probably even teh east coast, so you always hear about Renzo
There are a few other MMA schools in NYC, us for example
where Renzo's is BJJ and has a lot of grappling and ground fighting focus, we are most standing based, we do boxing, Muay Thai, shootboxing, K-Max, etcComment
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Sounds like some free advertising for your gym...
Anyway, not to start a debate or anything but do any of your guys compete in MMA? I know your guys compete in San Shou and sometimes Muay Thai competitions, but I haven't really heard about any MMA from you guys. Again I want to explain that I am asking a curious question and not trying to stir anything up.
Also who is your ground grappling or wrestling coach there?
There are a few other schools that have more of a mixed martial arts program to their school, however its kind of hard to teach "MMA" because it is a blend of different martial arts.
It is in my opinion that someone who wants to learn "MMA" should pick an art such as Muay Thai or Wrestling or BJJ and really try to gain proficiency in one art before branching out into others. A person with a blue or purple belt in BJJ can easily add ground striking to their game, however I believe it is a very bad idea to start learning ground fighting with strikes involved first because of the fact that you will begin to develop bad habits and inprecise technique. The same goes for Muay Thai and boxing. Its a lot easier to learn how to throw proper punches and kicks and combinations in a muay thai or boxing environment than to start of learning how to throw punches while also trying to react to a shoot or a clinch.Comment
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LKF, thanks for the info. However, I should have been more specific. I am looking for schools that deal with defending and executing strikes while on the ground.Comment
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Last time I checked, it's still a free country, then again, with the RNC in town, NYC is sort of like a police state
but I think I'm still free to mention my school. I know the internet is full of those who want to start drama and arguments, but I didn't say anything negative about anyone and didn't even thump up our school really.... just a link ... www.nykkgym.com 
My guys (and gals) do everything. We're a San Da club, that's what martial art we do, but we compete in boxing (finalists in NYC golden gloves several times), Muay Thai (for a non-MT gym we have WMC connections), shootboxing (we've sent guys to Japan), even American rules.
We've done some local and amateur MMA, but lately the NYSAC has pretty much closed down those sorts of events. We even promoted amateur events until the brew-ha-ha started and we were restrained from doing anymore
We also have guys rgularly doing no-gi competitions and placing. Again, we are mostly a stand up school, but we have placed in everything but advanced divisions. We're not Renzo's, nor do we ever claim to be, but us playing in no-gi submission grappling is like Renzo fielding a San da team
The advantage of doing San Da is that our "striking" and our "wrestling" are completely integrated and the transitions are smooth. I think that is a major advantage of working in our gym. It isn't like we have a MT coach and a wrestling coach who might at times be contradicting eachother or teaching stuff that doesn't so easily flow together.
I agree with you, don't start on the ground with punches, etc. Learn your positions, transitions, sweeps, reversals, escapes and submissions first. That's how we do it. But then againk what do we know?Comment
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Originally posted by LKFMDCThere are a few progressive or modern martial arts schools in NYC, but then there is a second point. To be a reall MMA school, you have to have an ongoing competition team, you have to have guys and gals going out there and competiting, and testing and keeping the fighting spirit up.
[. . . ]Renzo is top dog of BJJ in NYC, probably even teh east coast, so you always hear about Renzo
There are a few other MMA schools in NYC, us for example
where Renzo's is BJJ and has a lot of grappling and ground fighting focus, we are most standing based, we do boxing, Muay Thai, shootboxing, K-Max, etc
Your gym sounds great, but you have to admit that while Renzo's may be a BJJ school they also have the credentials when it comes to MMA.
In the end, every school has its own "flavor." I, quite literally, spent two years researching local schools when I moved back here (I'm actually in SLC, Utah). I compared systems, instructors, students, organizations, facilities, prices, etc. In the end I ended up joining a school that just had the best "vibe."
Your in NYC, you'll have plenty of schools to check out. Start looking around. Get a feel for each place, and go with which ever one will actually make it enjoyable for you to train.Comment
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Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post, though I did write
- "Obviously, BJJ has that culture (ie MMA culture) and so the BJJ schools have mixed martial arts feel, classes and culture. Renzo is top dog of BJJ in NYC, probably even teh east coast, so you always hear about Renzo" -
Anyhoo, my point being, at Renzo's you are going to learn to be a BJJ fighter, ie close the distance, get a good clinch, get a takedown and work on the ground. It's one of many "flavors" that makes up modern MMA.
At NYKK, you will learn to strike, kick, wrestle and throw. If you need an "example" we are more the Vanderlei Silva, Rampage Jackson, Lidell kind of approach....
Some people eat french fries with katchup, others with mayo.....Comment
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hello dkm,
check out my website:
i teach MMA/BJJ in nyc and am affiliated with Matt Thornton and the StraightBlast Gym. Our base curriculum revolves around the fundamentals of stand up. clinch, and ground.
to answer your question about specific vale tudo training in regards to striking on the ground. that is just one aspect of the root art of brazilian jiu-jitsu (and comparitively speaking it is a very small aspect at that) you can teach the Gi art, the No-Gi sport, the vale tudo/mma striking perspective, or the street and self-defense aspect. but all those are still derived using the same delivery system of BJJ. the most technical being the Gi training - with No Gi sharpening your speed and attributes - and Vale Tudo just providing a different strategy for the insertion of strikes within the ground game.
there are a remarkably simple and limited number of high percentage ways to strike and defend strikes while on the ground. but the hard part is not learning a collection of techniques but sharpening and honing those skills in your ground base (BJJ) in order to have the timing and composure to utilize these techniques while training live.
thats why most successful MMA schools/teams have a really strong grappling base (either wrestling for ground and pound or BJJ for submissions) ie. Team Quest and Team Renzo respectively.
so while its true that most BJJ schools are sportJJ oriented, you don't have to make MMA/Vale Tudo training your 100% priority cuz the sport training will help compliment that other aspect in the long run. you just need to find yourself an experienced coach who can properly break down the striking aspect (on the ground) of training and help you drill it effectively.Comment
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nice post ChristianComment
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