Whats the best ground fighting MA

[Tameo]

I take TWC and i am looking for some other MA that is good at ground fighting. What do you people think is the best when it comes down to ground fighting? Also please tell me what is the best ground fighting style that compliments WC the best.

[krys]

There is no "best groundfighting art"... you should rather look for the best groundfighting instructor. I've done bjj and sambo for 8 years, they mix well with wing chun (it isn't too difficult to enter in grapling distance if you know how to bridge), now I graple during ross training. Naban grapling would also be a very good choice because of the dirty fighting aspect (biting...), but this system is hard to find.

[Tant01]

Judo, (not olympic), Kosen-Newaza, Kosen Judo

http://www.gws.ne.jp/home/demo2/indexe.html

[Hermosa]

BJJ still owns the ground. The delivery system of the art is so superior to anything we've seen before.

A great example of this is Gene Lebell. Have you ever taken a look at the guy's submission encyclopedia..its crazy. The guy knows literally thousands of submissions, but he's not spitting out champions in sport or NHB..he lacks the delivery system to make all that stuff work.

Another example that I love to pick on is the Grapplers edge guys from Denver, these guys pose as the best grapplers in the USA, and on the cutting edge of grappling training..they have no ground game whatsoever, they win tournaments by scoring a takedown and standing up and shooting again and standing up..etc..Their takedowns are sick, but the question was who are the best groundfighters.

BJJ is so far above anything else on the ground...alot of guys look to sambo because they think that BJJ is weak on leglocks. Did you know that most of the Machado Bros are world Sambo champions. They competed in Sambo because they ran out of things to compete in! They absolutely worked the sambo guys, its ridiculous. There is alot of great things you can cross train in, and alot of area where BJJ doesn't have the answers, but we're gonna continue to own the Low Zone for many years!

[CKD]

BJJ still owns the ground. The delivery system of the art is so superior to anything we've seen before.

A great example of this is Gene Lebell. Have you ever taken a look at the guy's submission encyclopedia..its crazy. The guy knows literally thousands of submissions, but he's not spitting out champions in sport or NHB..he lacks the delivery system to make all that stuff work.

Another example that I love to pick on is the Grapplers edge guys from Denver, these guys pose as the best grapplers in the USA, and on the cutting edge of grappling training..they have no ground game whatsoever, they win tournaments by scoring a takedown and standing up and shooting again and standing up..etc..Their takedowns are sick, but the question was who are the best groundfighters.

BJJ is so far above anything else on the ground...alot of guys look to sambo because they think that BJJ is weak on leglocks. Did you know that most of the Machado Bros are world Sambo champions. They competed in Sambo because they ran out of things to compete in! They absolutely worked the sambo guys, its ridiculous. There is alot of great things you can cross train in, and alot of area where BJJ doesn't have the answers, but we're gonna continue to own the Low Zone for many years!

I defenitely would not say bjj owns the ground. The Gracies may claim there art is something new but they have not changed any techniques. The Machado brothers are not World Sambo champions. The highest they have competed is Pan American Sambo. I wouldn't say they worked them either. After they competed the Machados added sambo techniques to there BJJ, so you have to give them credit for being open minded. Sambo people have also done well in BJJ. The San Frasisco BJJ Open was won by a sambo player. These guys have competed in BJJ http://samboubc.tripod.com/clubpics1.htm and done well and there are many others. Fedor also has destroyedthe world bjj champ Nogueira, Arona, and all others he faced. Now back to the subject. What type of groundfighting do you mean? Sport, mma, or self defense? For sport that allows all types of subs I would suggest BJJ, sambo, and Kosen Judo are pretty much tied. MMA I am not sure how I should grade it. It involves too many factors besides ground. With the sport I did it as pure ground as if it was a competetion that started on the knees because throws would change the results too much. The self defense part will grade on how the art deals with weapons, multiples, and other nasty stuff. That is non-existent in Kosen Judo, Krav Maga, and BJJ. So since sambo is the only art that has these techniques I guess it wins that category. But we must remember that experience rules over all these and that these styles are all similar except Krav Maga. Human Beings have only two arms and two legs. There are only so many ways we can break them.

[Thai Bri]

Hermosa, you cannot logically "evidence" that BJJ is best by picking on two non BJJ people and saying "they don't win all the tournaments".

And anyway, Le Belle is old enough to be your Grandad, how the heck do you expect him to enter?

BJJ is a great art but, since it educated the rest of the world re grappling, others have caught up!

[Uber_Tap]

Hermosa, I agree that BJJ is still the ground style you have to worry about. It is still evolving, and most schools now train leg locks which is the only knock I've ever heard on BJJ.

I do disagree about the Gene Lebell post though. Let us not forget about Karo Parisyan who is making waves in the UFC and he is affiliated with Lebell. Rumor has it that if Matt Hughes wins the title back Parisyan will be gunning for him. I don't know if I like anyones chances against Matt, but Parisyan is solid.

The title ranks are void of any real BJJ champs by the way. The only one I can think of is Frank Mir who I like to watch, and who is a solid fighter, but he's a solid fighter in the UFCs weakest division. I'd like to see him challenged by some solid heavy weights.

[Hermosa]

BJJ is a great art but, since it educated the rest of the world re grappling, others have caught up!

BJJ is a great art...and that was the subject of this thread, what ART is the best for groundfighting. And I agree, BJJ did educate the whole world, and a lot of guys ARE catching up now...HOW?--by doing BJJ. BJJ owns the ground.

In regards to LeBell, I wasn't suggesting that He-himself, come out and fight, I am just saying that there are no Lebell students pulling off ANY of those crazy ass submissions that Gene likes to brag about. Even John lewis said that he learned alot of great stuff from Gene but it wasn't until he trained BJJ that he understood how to control a position and transition into what he wanted.

BJJ is easily the single most exploited art. EVERYONE DOES IT!---but no one wants to say they do it.

[Hermosa]

Hermosa, I agree that BJJ is still the ground style you have to worry about. It is still evolving, and most schools now train leg locks which is the only knock I've ever heard on BJJ.

I do disagree about the Gene Lebell post though. Let us not forget about Karo Parisyan who is making waves in the UFC and he is affiliated with Lebell. Rumor has it that if Matt Hughes wins the title back Parisyan will be gunning for him. I don't know if I like anyones chances against Matt, but Parisyan is solid.

The title ranks are void of any real BJJ champs by the way. The only one I can think of is Frank Mir who I like to watch, and who is a solid fighter, but he's a solid fighter in the UFCs weakest division. I'd like to see him challenged by some solid heavy weights.

Uber..I basically agree with you for the most part. What I'd like to point out again is that the thread topic was best "GROUNDFIGHTING" art. Not best fighter, or best art for NHB. Karo is making waves in the UFC..but not because of his ground game. Its cause his Judo is sick! In UFC 49 Nick Diaz who is just a purple belt was ALL over him on the ground.

Also, on the subject of pure groundfighting..As a grappler, I'd never enter the UFC now. I beleive it is entirely slanted towards striking and I understand the need to keep it exciting and full of action. But it is no longer the ultimate proving ground..those days are gone.

[Uber_Tap]

Agreed. The UFC has certainly taken steps to make the ground game less effective unless it's ground-and-pound. The wrestlers have adapted well though. They have learned that putting a bjj guy up against the fence on his back keeps him from being as effective in the guard.

Diaz did dominate the ground, but he also left with an L that night

[CKD]

BJJ is a great art...and that was the subject of this thread, what ART is the best for groundfighting. And I agree, BJJ did educate the whole world, and a lot of guys ARE catching up now...HOW?--by doing BJJ. BJJ owns the ground.

In regards to LeBell, I wasn't suggesting that He-himself, come out and fight, I am just saying that there are no Lebell students pulling off ANY of those crazy ass submissions that Gene likes to brag about. Even John lewis said that he learned alot of great stuff from Gene but it wasn't until he trained BJJ that he understood how to control a position and transition into what he wanted.

BJJ is easily the single most exploited art. EVERYONE DOES IT!---but no one wants to say they do it.

I agree with some of the stuff said. But not all NHB fighters do BJJ. Fedor, Sergei Khariktov, Vochancyn and basically every fighter out of the Former Soviet Union does sambo instead. There are no bjj schools over in the former soviet union suprisingly. There are also some judo players like Ogawa that do not do bjj. I agree Lebell seems to lack positioning skills but Gokor seems to have good positioning and transitioning. I do not believe bjj owns the ground. I am a blue belt in it and I used to think it was something special and different but after experiencing other grappling arts I found out it didn't own the ground. I think if we are talking pure sport fighting that BJJ, Sambo, Kosen Judo, and Armenian Jiu-jitsu are the top ones. The rest depends on the fighters skill and instructor and what he emphasizes. For example if you go into sambo some schools might emphasize throws or striking. But others like David Rudman emphasize ground

[BJJ-2/04]

I’d recommend you do BJJ. It’s a complete MA, but will also provide what you are looking for. I trained TWC with the NAWCA and BJJ gives you no nonsense ground skills. It’s possible to learn the whole system in one year. The rest is time given to doing the rolling/sparing and drills. Through its progression, BJJ has implemented 3 of the 4 martial arts you listed (Judo, Wrestling and Sambo). Throughout the Gracie’s history they have won events in those MA you listed. For example, before Rolls Gracie died of a hang gliding accident he trained in Judo, Sambo and Wrestling (with Bob Anderson the head of the World Wrestling Federation) at Sambo events “he walked through the tournaments and destroyed everyone in his divisions” at the AAU National Sambo Championships and the YMCA National Sambo Championships. Through the evolution of BJJ this cross training was very common. Many of the Gracie over time received black belts in Judo. BJJ has more ground techniques than judo and judo has more throwing technique then BJJ. I have no experience with Sambo, but did take one Krav Maga class and what I learned in the class conflicted with some concepts I strongly believe to be effective from my TWC.

Anyway, that being said, I can’t say BJJ has the best ground techniques of all MA. What makes it so effective is the training and the amount of full force grappling and training drills. BJJ is also usually more technical (meaning to use your technique over strength) than some other arts. A smaller person can overcome a larger person, similar to the TWC.

[greenfrog]

Whichever martial art the poster is taking. Most people will always defend what they take and claim it as the best even if they know little to nothing about the other styles they are claiming it is better than. Thats how all polls about MA go. Which is the best for you? Try any out in your area and see what you like, my philosophy has always been to go for the better instructor when the quality of the MA is comparitive. Even if the art is better and you have a sub-par instructor you will probably be better off with a quality instructor of a sub-par style.

I dont think any groundfighting system "compliments" WC but of course that doesnt mean you cant use both effectively. Use WC for standup and if you get taken to the ground use groundfighting.