Hand Wraps

[bdipab]

They don't weaken the hands. People who say that are talking out of their asses and don't have the experience to know better. Safety gear does just that: it keeps you safe. Safe training means you're not injured all the time. Not being injured means being in better condition to protect yourself if you need to.

F'ing right.

Edit. I guess Mike Tyson, Muhammed Ali, Joe Louis, Sugar Ray Leonard, etc. all had weak hands. Even f'ing mma gloves wrap around the wrist and pad the knuckles. Using wraps doesn't mean that in a street fight you're hands won't withstand the impact .

[SimonM]

I've just seen way too many people cross the line between "hard-ass" and "dumb-ass" in training, mess themselves up, and have to stop training altogether and watch their juniors fly past them in skill and ability. In the end, I still say you're a whole lot better off "conditioning your hands" by wearing bag gloves and handwraps and working the bag for two hours a week than by busting up your hands with some archaic and distinctly "unalive" repetitions on the makiwara.

I like the bag I LOVE the heavy bag; I don't just do "unalive" repetitions on the makiwara. I also never understood why people had to wear gloves to punch a heavy bag. I actually haven't ever hurt myself on one except for a tiny scratch off of an old canvas one wrapped in 15 layers of shredded duct tape but that was a long time ago. It's just that people get so caught up in sport that they forget that a small ammount of pain now during conditioning drills will make for a significantly reduced chance of injury later.

If you have to defend yourself what are you going to do? Ask your attacker for a minute to put on your wraps? I'd rather just have wrists and hands strong enough that I don't need to use wraps.

[Blue Wave Gym]

I think mike is right

I've done knuckle conditioning as well as the misguided shin kicking of a pole paded with a rag or 2 and some duck tape to secure it. The misguided bash until numb theory won't go away, too many americans have watched kickboxer or other wacko karate movies or read articles in ma magazines, too many times I think. most actual mauy thai guys just use the banna bag for conditioning their legs for the ring the (article in blackbelt magazine with rick roufus) I managed to numb my legs up pretty nicely though. One problem with numbing body parts is you won't know when you actually hurt yourself example: after a fight where I just beat the sh** out of my opponent(he did the same to me) and we clashed legs alot, I had a small red mark on my leg, but otherwise felt fine. I went home went to bed and awoke to have a painful softball sized hemotoma (actually bigger than that, my leg looked pretty dam deformed) and it didn't feel so good to walk on it. So off then the now familar emergency room (through all the time I was bouncing and all the various styles of fighting I've been in I'm no stanger to the emergency room) The doc wrapped my leg in a booby jones splint and informed me that I would need to be on crutches. After I told him where he could stick his crutches,(it's a point of pride with me not to let my opponet cause me an injury) I walked out of the hospital, I couldn't, spar throw a kick or train for like 1 and a half to 2 mounths. So pounding your legs on poles or with shnias, bats, and all the other dumb crap I used to pound them on was probably not the best idea, but I 'm the same guy who use to have a training partner drop a 70 pund heavy bag on his stomach(and some times from a ladder) for ab conditioning.(don't ever do this cause it's hell on your low back especially if your on a wood or cement floor) I also used to run with a Ta-50 filled with sand {I think like 70 pounds} but I wouldn't wear and l.b.e vest to secure it, That's bad for your back and it'll rip the hide right off of you, jolly fun when all that salty sweat gets in. A Young martial arts/fighter usually equals stupid. I don't think hitting a heavy bag bare knuckle from time to time (better to atl east wear old school bag gloves so your skin won't rip) If your DAM care full. I think hitting your fist on hard things is probably not good in the long run. My tkd instructor had hands that are like clubs from pounding the makiwara. I used to punch trees, cement walls, makiwaras, my steel pole mounted in a bucket of cement, which I created a simulated head with duck tape and rags( it makes a goood stabing dummy especially if you slightly pad the middle of the pole) and I use to really love to 2 cinder blocks that I found at a construction site. The cinder blockwere really rough and would open up all yor knuckles after only a few strikes, the cinder blocks are now entirely coverend with my blood from 1001 "conditioning" sessions. What does any of this have to do with realistic self defense: not too dam much.So mike is probably right. If I was locked in a super max prison cell 23 hours a day, I'd probably start some knuckle "conditioning" program out of boredom but I'd do alot of shadowboxing, push ups and tricep dips and squats as well. Other wise I'd think twice about "conditioning" your knuckles untill more info about possible arthritis in the hands is known. Maybe punching and low kicing (with your shin) would be a safe option? What do you guys think?
Also from time to time boxing (hitting a heavv bag ) with mma gloves is good for getting used to the light weight of little gloves/bare knucle compared to you 12oz bag gloves.Caution the century wrist wrap bag gloves are good protection for straight punches but aren't to supprotive on hook punches, and free standing bags with a plastic core (my wave master XXL for example) can be hard on the joints and bones of the hands/wrists( my B.O.B. filled with water seems to be more yeilding than the wave master) A regular old heavy bag would definately be the best option. Try to hang a 25#-70 pound heavy bag from a tree outside if you can't hang one in your house or garage. Or just hang a sand bag from a tree.Think twice about "conditioning" your hands!

[SimonM]

, more realistic intensity across a broad spectrum of drills which gives you much more applicable skill than training with light contact or no contact bareknuckle.

True if you are doing light or no-contact. I never said I was.

You need to understand that streetfights don't happen like competitions or movie fights. They start and end fast. I can tell you from triple-digit experience that you're not likely to notice most injuries until well after, and I can also tell you that it doesn't take as much to stop a street attack as you might think.

Again we do not disagree. Most of the fights I've been in ended the second blood was spilt. That's why I advocate strikes to the nose with fist, elbow or head depending on range and other prevailing factors as a way to potentially stop a fight fast. I just also have always preferred to train whenever possible without gloves and have done so without any serious injuries. I don't particularly care about a few tiny scars on my hands, they still work fine.

[wardancer]

wardancer,
karate (in your mind) may be bareknuckle MMA, but that doesn't mean you need to be dumb about protecting your body in training.

I've just seen way too many people cross the line between "hard-ass" and "dumb-ass" in training, mess themselves up, and have to stop training altogether and watch their juniors fly past them in skill and ability. In the end, I still say you're a whole lot better off "conditioning your hands" by wearing bag gloves and handwraps and working the bag for two hours a week than by busting up your hands with some archaic and distinctly "unalive" repetitions on the makiwara.

That where I do not like your reply because you are suggesting I am against bag training and that I advocate dangerous techniques!
Makiwara training has to be done in a safe manner.
Do not start with a 4 inches board and rice straw padding, it is counter-productive.
Please start with 2 inches *even if you have to brake it once in while) and rather that rice straw padding, use anything not too abrasive that will not brake your knuckle skin: increase the size and the roughtness of the surface with time.
Make sure you use proper techniques e.g hip rotation and shoulder.
Train smart like use a different block techniques before a striking, change your timing etc...
Having a makiwara that is not flexible is dangerous, you might as well punch a wall and it is useless.
I never said I am against or I do not train bag striking and training with moving partners that are holding punching shield. You are just assuming as usual. Different tools for different purpose.
The point is when it comes to striking hand/knuckes conditioning, I advised Makiwara.Your problem wiht Makiwara training must on some bad instructions you must have heard off.
The same applies to bag training, you are not gonna expect some beginners to go stupid the biggest bag (full of sand) on his first day, just to give after a few strikes once he injured his wrist etc...
It is the same way I do not expect a kid to start smashing a 4 inches oak wood. It is just stupid people with bad instructors!
Bag training is a totally different exercise with a different purpose as you mentionned.
But to not bother try to compare them, actually they both aim at different exercises.
However it does not mean they are not compatible, most karatekas do both anyway.
If you think bag training with wrapped hand gonna make you a more prepared street fighter so be it!

[Sensei Saki]

"I never noticed that similarity" where I do not like your reply because you are suggesting I am against bag training and that I advocate dangerous techniques ?
Makes sense to me.Where did Makiwara training get to be done in a safe manner?Ok I'll try not to do start with a 4 inches board and rice straw padding it is counter-productive too much.Thank you for your request.

I started without you.Say no to proper techniques eg hip rotation and shoulder.
Oh, you are a poet.I have having fun.But you implied he or she is against or he or she do not train bag striking and training with moving partners that are holding punching shield .Just? I will tell my botmaster you said I am assuming as usual.
My brain contains more than 22,000 patterns, but not one that matches your last input.Really is that the point. That makes a lot of sense to me, now that you explain it.What about yours?I never noticed that similarity.Exactly the same?Who said
stupid people with bad instructors is?I think Bag training is more than that.
Umm.
Interesting. I want to find out more about you.In any case, What does mean they are not compatible most karatekas do both ?I think I do.

[wardancer]

"I never noticed that similarity" where I do not like your reply because you are suggesting I am against bag training and that I advocate dangerous techniques ?
Makes sense to me.Where did Makiwara training get to be done in a safe manner?Ok I'll try not to do start with a 4 inches board and rice straw padding it is counter-productive too much.Thank you for your request.

I started without you.Say no to proper techniques eg hip rotation and shoulder.
Oh, you are a poet.I have having fun.But you implied he or she is against or he or she do not train bag striking and training with moving partners that are holding punching shield .Just? I will tell my botmaster you said I am assuming as usual.
My brain contains more than 22,000 patterns, but not one that matches your last input.Really is that the point. That makes a lot of sense to me, now that you explain it.What about yours?I never noticed that similarity.Exactly the same?Who said
stupid people with bad instructors is?I think Bag training is more than that.
Umm.
Interesting. I want to find out more about you.In any case, What does mean they are not compatible most karatekas do both ?I think I do.

And your point is?
Mike Brewer is against makiwara for health/safety reasons for very good reasons.
I advocate safe Makiwara training:
Get to the point and I might be able to respond to your mumbo jumbo tirade!!!
Did/do you train Makiwara?
There is no shame even some karate BB do not bother about conditionning their knuckles if they practice a bare knuckles MA!
Did you fight with sore/busted knuckles versus potential HIV opponents?
I don't think so!
so what about you get a hike!

[HtTKar]

wardancer. I dont want to ruin it, but you realize sensei saki is a computer right? check out the training thread. You're not the only one. Shes getting smarter all the time, but its really funny to watch people argue with her.

[wardancer]

wardancer. I dont want to ruin it, but you realize sensei saki is a computer right? check out the training thread. You're not the only one. Shes getting smarter all the time, but its really funny to watch people argue with her.

Nope I had no idea.