A question for BJJ'ers...

[EmptyneSs]

Mr. Ward. Brazilian "Jiu-Jutsu" IS Judo.... Newaza (ground work) The strangling, the choking, the armlocks, the positions etc... Judo. It's all Judo.




"There is no technique in BJJ that can not be found in traditional kodokan judo"

Mark Tripp (6th Dan)

tanto, if u are going to insist on calling bjj judo in every thread, then by your logic shouldng u be calling all of it jiu jitsu then? if u are saying that bjj is judo, then by that same token u should be calling judo jui jitsu because thats all judo is, its jui jitsu with some rules and restrictions.

[wardancer]

I have a question I have been wanting to ask. Let's say your about to be in an altercation and it is inevitable. Your opponet is NOT a skilled grappler. But here's the deal, let's say he has one of those physique's where all of his weight is in the middle, okay he is fat and dumpy, outweighs you 60lbs. Let's say you throw all the Vale Tudo in book at him but you end up locking up with him, what would be some good ideas as far as where to take the fight from here? I am very new to BJJ (first month actually) and my coach explained to me that you never want to pull someone into your guard on the street so with that in mind I know that several of you can give me some great option's and I look forward to your reply's!

If you lock with him, take him down do not pull the guard.
Play top position and finish off anyway you want.
Since when BJJ only option is to pull guard?
The best option for BJJ is to take down your opponent.
Please ask your instructors for take down techniques.
and that is the reason why they award 2 points for it in sport BJJ!
Only pull guard if he manages to take you down first.

[wardancer]

Easy answer? There is none! Right answer? PRACTICE MORE. What do you DO? Lower your center of gravity, get your HANDS in a defensive position. move!! If it's "inevitable" I assume he's attacking you and you have no room to evade? What's left to DO victim boy? ATTACK! Forget BJJ or "vale tudo" and lift your lead leg up as he gets close NOW bring it down HARD (STOMP) his lead foot. NOW HIT HIM with your fist (easy, you don't want to break your unprotected hand) Just punch his nose! Then lift your foot again like you mean to stomp (BREAK) his other foot! PUNCH HIM AGAIN! Stomp and punch untill he backs up or falls down trying then stomp and kick him a few more times Or JUMP ON NOW AND DO YOUR BJJ "KIMURA" or cross lock, choke him out or just keep punching...

If you were learning real Judo you wouldn't need to ask this question...

What the hell?
Is that your answer to a street fight and claim that you do Judo?
Is that you definition of real Judo?
Are you admitting that all the so famous Judo throws and takedowns do not work in a streetfight and you just rely to a striking game instead?
Why don't you tell everybody to join a Muy Thai club rather than doing you Judo style instead?
Brazilian JJ fighter will never advised to strike an opponent in an open fight when he can strike you back, it simply to silly to rely on strikes hoping to outstrike a bigger opponent.
Instead he focuses on the strategy for a take down and a better position for subs (in case the opponent is defending the subs, strike him to create an opening for the sub or keep hitting once you get him in such position he cannot hit you back e.g mount, knee on belly, back).
Dude, you are just a Judo historian and should consider joining a BJJ team that has some mma fighters to keep yourselves updated with the real world.
Sorry, you views are totally off!

[Tant01]

To counter the bite and eye jab, focus all your chi in your midsection and visualize a giant blue fireball. Next step involves screaming HADOUKEN!!! while releasing the fireball into the attacker.

Problem solved.

So THAT'S how you deal with those unbeatable street fighters...

[Tant01]

tanto, if u are going to insist on calling bjj judo in every thread, then by your logic shouldng u be calling all of it jiu jitsu then? if u are saying that bjj is judo, then by that same token u should be calling judo jui jitsu because thats all judo is, its jui jitsu with some rules and restrictions.

Get a grip! I call it Judo because it's Judo. I can't help it if the popular sport grappling known as BJJ is misunderstood, misnamed and misspelled...

Jujutsu is for killing enemies (bujutsu) JUDO is the sporting application of these techniques. (budo) One is for the battle field the other for personal development...

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fight/judo/judo.html

Does this help?

[Tant01]

What the hell?
Is that your answer to a street fight and claim that you do Judo?
Is that you definition of real Judo?
Are you admitting that all the so famous Judo throws and takedowns do not work in a streetfight and you just rely to a striking game instead?
Why don't you tell everybody to join a Muy Thai club rather than doing you Judo style instead?
....!

No, I simply suggested ONE course of action that COULD be effective against a larger opponent. Have you ever broken the bones in your foot? Was it hard to stay standing up? I know it goes against the BJJ strategy of using the floor to immobilize your opponent before you attain the superior position to apply your finishing technique but why go there if a simple side kick will give you the same results... Break his foot. Down he goes. No need to climb on and try to finish him is there? Ohh, you want to roll with the big guy? To each his own...

[EmptyneSs]

Get a grip! I call it Judo because it's Judo. I can't help it if the popular sport grappling known as BJJ is misunderstood, misnamed and misspelled...

Jujutsu is for killing enemies (bujutsu) JUDO is the sporting application of these techniques. (budo) One is for the battle field the other for personal development...

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fight/judo/judo.html

Does this help?

isnt judo just jiu jitsu with the dangeruous techniques removed? if u insist on calling bjj judo, which its not, then u should be calling it all just jui jitsu.

[Tant01]

isnt judo just jiu jitsu with the dangeruous techniques removed? if u insist on calling bjj judo, which its not, then u should be calling it all just jui jitsu.

If only it were that simple!

Traditional Bujutsu Ryu taught battle tactics and techniques with various weapons including swordmanship, knife fighting, stick fighting, archery, gunnery, battle axes, etc, etc...and of course this includes hand to hand combat.

Judo is known as the gentle way so of course you won't find these weapons or the tactics and techniques for using them.

However Judo does include all the "dangerous" limb destructions, chokes, strangles, and throws.

Kinda like "Jiu-Jutsu"

[wardancer]

No, I simply suggested ONE course of action that COULD be effective against a larger opponent. Have you ever broken the bones in your foot? Was it hard to stay standing up? I know it goes against the BJJ strategy of using the floor to immobilize your opponent before you attain the superior position to apply your finishing technique but why go there if a simple side kick will give you the same results... Break his foot. Down he goes. No need to climb on and try to finish him is there? Ohh, you want to roll with the big guy? To each his own...

Your one course of action is striking. I find it strange coming from a Judoka!
Yes, I have broken bones in both foots during Karate kumite (without shoes of course).
A simple side kick do not work especially versus a bigger opponent:
my reason is based from personal experience but also from watching MMA/K1 or even Kyokushin KO fight.
Anyway, I would you know how to break someone foot anyway?
Because you practice the deadly art of breaking bones!
You just sound like one of those self-defense weirdos that lives on dreams and assumptions.
It is exactly what BJJ members stand against.
They have accumulated such a vast experience of real fights done by their top members throught open challenge and now professionnal fights.
You might not approve of their fighting mentallity because afterall it is a MA but you cannot deny that what work for them will work on the street.
It has been recorded and they have empirical proofs of what works and what sucks.
If you had some skills in grappling, why not use it to your advantage?
You just prove that you have no idea of BJJ and you just are off topic really!

[wardancer]

If only it were that simple!



However Judo does include all the "dangerous" limb destructions, chokes, strangles, and throws.

Kinda like "Jiu-Jutsu"

Heaps of techniques have been taken away from Judo.
Judo do not allow or teach leg locks, neck cranks, spine locks, shoulder locks, wrist locks, muscle crush, cross-facing?

Why does Judo force fighters to stand up after something like 30 seconds?
Why does a submission attempt once a fighter rather to defend the sub just decide to stand up?
Why is it Judo fight can be won on a clean sweep, not very realistic?

[HtTKar]

Judo do not allow or teach leg locks, neck cranks, spine locks, shoulder locks, wrist locks, muscle crush, cross-facing?

Who taught you Judo?

[Tant01]

Your one course of action is striking. I find it strange coming from a Judoka!
Yes, I have broken bones in both foots during Karate kumite (without shoes of course).
A simple side kick do not work especially versus a bigger opponent:
....

....If you had some skills in grappling, why not use it to your advantage?
You just prove that you have no idea of BJJ and you just are off topic really!

Chill....it was just a suggestion.

You're right, the foot crushing thing would never work in a real fight and I don't know nuthin about the BJJ...

Sorry for dragging the topic off into the atemiwaza...

[wardancer]

Who taught you Judo?

Is my opinion of Judo rules correct or not?

[wardancer]

stuff not allowed in JUDO which BJJ allows:
From a standing position, to take hold of the opponent's foot/feet,
leg(s) or trouser leg(s) with the hand(s), unless simultaneously attempting a throwing technique.
xiii) To encircle the end of the belt or jacket around any part of the
opponent's body.
xiv) To take the judogi in the mouth.
xv) To put a hand, arm, foot or leg directly on the opponent's face.
xvi) To put a foot or a leg in the opponent's belt, collar or lapel.
To make any action which may endanger or injure the opponent especially the opponent's neck or spinal vertebrae, or may be against the spirit of Judo.
xxix) To fall directly to the mat while applying or attempting to apply t echniques such as waki-gatame.
xxx) To "dive" head first, onto the mat by bending forward and downward while performing or attempting to perform techniques such as uchi-mata, harai-goshi, etc.
xxxi) To intentionally fall backwards when the other contestant is clinging to
The act of "encircling" means that the belt or jacket must completely encircle. Using the belt or jacket as an "anchor" for a grip (without encircling) to say - trap the opponent's arm should not be penalised.
xv) The face means the area within the line bordered by - forehead, in front of the ears and jaw-line.
xxviii) Examples: kani-basami, Combination kansetsu-waza and nage-waza.
xxix) To attempt such throws as harai-goshi, uchi-mata, etc., with only one hand gripping the opponent's lapel from a position resembling waki gatame (in which the wrist of the opponent is trapped beneath the thrower's armpit) and deliberately falling, face down, onto the mat is likely to cause injury and will be penalised. Not intended to throw an opponent cleanly onto his back, such moves are dangerous and will be treated in the same way as waki-gatame.

[wardancer]

Here some stuff from http://www.ijf.org/corner/qCornerVie...oCorner&Idx=16
Modern rules (with one ippon score, neck and leg locks no longer permitted??) appeared after World War II, more specifically in the early fifties with the internationalisation of judo under the impulse of the refounded European Judo Union (European Championship in Paris, in 1951 ; World Championship in Tokyo, in 1956). Kodokan rules formulated in the late forties were translated and edited as a requirement in the growing judo community throughtout the world.

From the successive issues (1951, 1955, 1961??) we can point out the spirit that animates the changes. Actually, the evolution of judo rules is directed by four different aims :
-safety of the contestants,
-equality of chances of the contestants,
-preservation of judo traditions and technic specificity,
-improvement of attacking judo.