Throwing in BJJ

[Tant01]

A BJJ Blue belt is good and unlike others other TMA, to get blue in BJJ is an achievement.
The money issue is real: renting or using any type of infrastructure cost money especially the mats.
Anyone should charge for at least the usage of the room/facilities.
Some dudes always expect to get a free ride.

So YOU'RE saying a BJJ blue belt is not a relative novice and IS qualified to TEACH the Brazilian Jiu-Jutsu and SHOULD charge money for lessons?


LOL

[JasonE]

This "blue belt," was actually a good guy, whom I will not name... He didn't charge anyone, as this was basically a training session between various martial artist. By now, I'm sure he's a purple or even Brown Belt, as he was very proficient in sport BJJ.

I'm not saying he was a bad fighter... He could kick my ass. I think he was eluding to what Wardancer stated... That BJJ will not automatically make you a into a fighter, but it has elements that can help you defend yourself.

As far as the "Source" goes... I think it's over-exaggerated. The Gracies created BJJ, but it has moved beyond them as well. Sure, they're still competitive, but there are BJJ guys outside their circle that are equally good. I think Roy Harris summed it up best. The BJJ that Helio taught is not the same as the BJJ today. Today, there are more influences from sambo, MT, Judo, boxing, etc...

Kudos to the man for sharing so freely and for not blowing smoke up your butt about how great he was.

[aseepish]

So YOU'RE saying a BJJ blue belt is not a relative novice and IS qualified to TEACH the Brazilian Jiu-Jutsu and SHOULD charge money for lessons?


LOL

A relatively new blue belt (such as myself) may only have two or three years experience in the art, and probably isn't qualified to teach a formal class. But an experienced blue belt, especially one who was trained "old school" (with a very slow rate of promotion) might have six or seven years experience. These people, in my opinion, are qualified to teach the technical aspect of the game, especially to beginners.

My first exposure to BJJ was part of a JKD class. My instructors were NOT ranked in BJJ, they were themselves training under an experienced blue belt. Still, they were able to absorb and pass on the basic CONCEPTS of BJJ to me and the rest of the students (which is a major aspect of JKD). Of course they had other sources - Shoot, JKD grappling (Hartsell method), dumog, silat, Chin na/jointlocking. I learned enough from them to be able to dominate others with no experience in grappling.

Once I moved to Japan and started training at a BJJ academy (about five years later) that had a black belt instructor, I got my ass handed to me by the senior white belts. After a year though, I got my technique up to a level where I could "hang with the blue belts" and eventually achieved one myself.

Training with a black belt is a wonderful experience, but there are relatively few of them out there. Brown belts as well. I think in a lot of academies, the instructor is likely to be a purple belt. A blue belt can be a good coach to a complete beginner, provided that they can effectively transmit the basic concepts. A more experienced instructor is necessary though, if you intend to progress beyond these basics. If a student wishes to make BJJ their primary art, they should definitely seek out a high-level instructor.

[wardancer]

So YOU'RE saying a BJJ blue belt is not a relative novice and IS qualified to TEACH the Brazilian Jiu-Jutsu and SHOULD charge money for lessons?


LOL

I train under a BB.
However, a BJJ blue belt is not a novice unlike your TMA.
There is no qualification to teach in BJJ!
One of my mate fight in NHB/MMA unlike your club master (or whatever you think you wanna learn from?!) and he is only a BJJ blue belt, he can teach you and me and even my grandmother if needed!
His class will be based on his ring experience, so I will learn something for real.
Yes about the charges, what do you think?
Life is a FREE ride with you advocating for your own kids carrying knifes for self defense!
Get real, you have to pay for rentals and mats etc..!
Do you actually train in a MA club?

[wardancer]

So YOU'RE saying a BJJ blue belt is not a relative novice and IS qualified to TEACH the Brazilian Jiu-Jutsu and SHOULD charge money for lessons?


LOL

From BJJ throws topic to your smart reply!
How predictable, just trolling for a flame wars as usuall!
So boring and off topic!

[Tant01]

Me no not a thing..

I train under a BB.
However, a BJJ blue belt is not a novice unlike your TMA.
There is no qualification to teach in BJJ!
One of my mate fight in NHB/MMA unlike your club master (or whatever you think you wanna learn from?!) and he is only a BJJ blue belt, he can teach you and me and even my grandmother if needed!
His class will be based on his ring experience, so I will learn something for real.
Yes about the charges, what do you think?
Life is a FREE ride with you advocating for your own kids carrying knifes for self defense!
Get real, you have to pay for rentals and mats etc..!
Do you actually train in a MA club?

O kay, you train under a black or blue "B"?

A BJJ blue belt is NOT a (relative) novice... Gotcha! (what exactly is my TMA?)

Since there is NO qualification to teach the BJJ, maybe I should open a school?


You know, if you want to pay $$$ to be schooled by a Blue belt that's just fine by me. The thing is they can indeed teach newcomers the fundamentals of position and submission with the transitions and techniques but if you happen to know some Judo it's just as likely that you could teach HIM a thing or two about his own techniques...


The BJJ academy nearby often has open house (saturdays) and demonstrations on the Plaza. I take advantage of the freebies as often as I can at a couple different clubs and am working on starting a Judo club to get some players up to speed and rolling with the BJJ guys! I think THAT would be big fun!
Blue belts are nice guys and all but hardly advanced players or instructors.

You really don't like people with knives or training in the offensive application of knife techniques, do you? Does it scare you that a little girl with a knife might nullify all your MMA training with one thrust of the steel?
It SHOULD!

[wardancer]

O kay, you train under a black or blue "B"?

A BJJ blue belt is NOT a (relative) novice... Gotcha! (what exactly is my TMA?)

Since there is NO qualification to teach the BJJ, maybe I should open a school?


You know, if you want to pay $$$ to be schooled by a Blue belt that's just fine by me. The thing is they can indeed teach newcomers the fundamentals of position and submission with the transitions and techniques but if you happen to know some Judo it's just as likely that you could teach HIM a thing or two about his own techniques...


The BJJ academy nearby often has open house (saturdays) and demonstrations on the Plaza. I take advantage of the freebies as often as I can at a couple different clubs and am working on starting a Judo club to get some players up to speed and rolling with the BJJ guys! I think THAT would be big fun!
Blue belts are nice guys and all but hardly advanced players or instructors.

You really don't like people with knives or training in the offensive application of knife techniques, do you? Does it scare you that a little girl with a knife might nullify all your MMA training with one thrust of the steel?
It SHOULD!

Yes, My instructor is a BB.
When he goes away I gladly takes classes with the blue belt which won a submission fight vs a NHB local fighter.
He gonna enter spartacus in Australia in 2 months (a Australian NHB event).
My team team standard must be different from your judo club.
You have to win the open national BJJ tournament to be considered for Blue belt.
I think the problem we are having is that my team are high standard.
Our BJJ blue belt requirement is to win national titles.
Some of them fight vale tudo and fight Judo BB in submission fights.
Your opinion of BJJ is based on your Judo experience.
About the knife stuff, pls any kids should never use knifes!
I am worried about that some forum kids might think you are a role model and start carrying a knife for self-defense.
About the freebies, yes I know you are cheap..

[wardancer]

So YOU'RE saying a BJJ blue belt is not a relative novice and IS qualified to TEACH the Brazilian Jiu-Jutsu and SHOULD charge money for lessons?


LOL

Like I said some dude always expect a free ride.
Maybe this is the reason why you kept changing MA...
You could not accomplish one thing and found the excuse of crosstraining convenient for your lack of consistency!

[wardancer]

O kay, you train under a black or blue "B"?

A BJJ blue belt is NOT a (relative) novice... Gotcha! (what exactly is my TMA?)

Since there is NO qualification to teach the BJJ, maybe I should open a school?


You know, if you want to pay $$$ to be schooled by a Blue belt that's just fine by me. The thing is they can indeed teach newcomers the fundamentals of position and submission with the transitions and techniques but if you happen to know some Judo it's just as likely that you could teach HIM a thing or two about his own techniques...


The BJJ academy nearby often has open house (saturdays) and demonstrations on the Plaza. I take advantage of the freebies as often as I can at a couple different clubs and am working on starting a Judo club to get some players up to speed and rolling with the BJJ guys! I think THAT would be big fun!
Blue belts are nice guys and all but hardly advanced players or instructors.

You really don't like people with knives or training in the offensive application of knife techniques, do you? Does it scare you that a little girl with a knife might nullify all your MMA training with one thrust of the steel?
It SHOULD!

This is the difference between us:
I rather learn from someone that fight in the NHB events, the BB is not important in such case.
yes for sport BJJ, a BJJ BB is good but not necessary.
You are satisfied for paying TMA BB that has never fought in MMA and discourage you doing so because he cannot train you.
And what crap are talking about BJJ vs Judo?
I already fought with Judo players under Submision rules?
so what about it?

[Tant01]

More or less

This is the difference between us:
I rather learn from someone that fight in the NHB events, the BB is not important in such case.
yes for sport BJJ, a BJJ BB is good but not necessary.
You are satisfied for paying TMA BB that has never fought in MMA and discourage you doing so because he cannot train you.
And what crap are talking about BJJ vs Judo?
I already fought with Judo players under Submision rules?
so what about it?

You really got me there. I never trained in any one thing for longer than a few years at a time. Sometimes just a few months and even a one day seminar with some 5th dan in the BJJ/GJJ... You know what he told me? MASTER the BASICS. Imagine that? The very same wazas I've been practicing since I was a teenager....


Say it with me: Katamewaza. This means "Grappling techniques"

Next we can work on Newaza or "Ground work"

and then some shimewaza and kansetsuwaza or "choking and jointlocks"...


The question about THROWING in BJJ would fall under Nagewaza. Not to be mistaken for FALLING techniques or Ukemi(waza)



You know, BASIC judo...?

I've heard the stories about BJJ/GJJ Blue Belts taking on Judo pro's in the submission game. (and winning) Big deal? Even the experienced white belt could take a Blackbelt in Judo Kata>>> Like you say, the colors don't mean much when you compare apples to bananas...


And just a little clue for you there Dancer, YOU DON"T KNOW who I've trained with so you might want to tread lightly before you get too derrogatory about YOUR OWN ART. My last "instructor" is a BJJ BLACK belt under a well known Jiu-Jitsu "Master" (You know, his initials are the same as mine?)

And a "BB" is a small spherical metal projectile for air powered guns. Talk about OFF TOPIC?

[wardancer]

You really got me there.
You know, BASIC judo...?

I've heard the stories about BJJ/GJJ Blue Belts taking on Judo pro's in the submission game. (and winning) Big deal? Even the experienced white belt could take a Blackbelt in Judo Kata>>> Like you say, the colors don't mean much when you compare apples to bananas...


And just a little clue for you there Dancer, YOU DON"T KNOW who I've trained with so you might want to tread lightly before you get too derrogatory about YOUR OWN ART. My last "instructor" is a BJJ BLACK belt under a well known Jiu-Jitsu "Master" (You know, his initials are the same as mine?)

And a "BB" is a small spherical metal projectile for air powered guns. Talk about OFF TOPIC?

My point still stands.
This is a bjj and mma thread.
The fact is that I would pay and respect my BJJ blue belt to teach me because of what they have done in the ring.
If you cannot say the same about your Judo Blue belt is really your problem, not mine!
I must have lost your point, maybe learning from your Judo blue belt is no big deal!

[wardancer]

You really got me there.
And just a little clue for you there Dancer, YOU DON"T KNOW who I've trained with so you might want to tread lightly before you get too derrogatory about YOUR OWN ART. My last "instructor" is a BJJ BLACK belt under a well known Jiu-Jitsu "Master" (You know, his initials are the same as mine?) :cool

That is the difference between us,
I do not care about it.
My team member (a blue belt in BJJ) is gonna fight a vale tudo next month.
As I joined the MMA training team, it is my duty to do my best to become a sparring partner to prepare him fo the fight. It will be difficult due to weight difference.
This time, it might be a cage.
Like I said, you are getting off topic!
WHEN IS SOMEONE GONNA TALK ABOUT MMA?

[vadrip]

This whole thing about a bjj blue belt not being experienced or versed enough to teach and charge for it is ludicrous.

The now defunct school my primary instructor started teaching at was only a blue belt in bjj when he started teaching, though, he was a black belt in sombo. Our sombo is just a glob of different grappling influences, not typical in that we get belts and mix in the bjj with it.

He 's now a purple after 5 years and I think he was around the 4 year mark in bjj and sombo when he started teaching us and he had already had a couple MMA fights. So people need to get off this belt thing because not every brown and black belt is a great teacher merely cause of his belt.

[wardancer]

This whole thing about a bjj blue belt not being experienced or versed enough to teach and charge for it is ludicrous.

The now defunct school my primary instructor started teaching at was only a blue belt in bjj when he started teaching, though, he was a black belt in sombo. Our sombo is just a glob of different grappling influences, not typical in that we get belts and mix in the bjj with it.

He 's now a purple after 5 years and I think he was around the 4 year mark in bjj and sombo when he started teaching us and he had already had a couple MMA fights. So people need to get off this belt thing because not every brown and black belt is a great teacher merely cause of his belt.

That is my point!
Belt systems is just good to average fighters in one MA competitions.
You do not want your rookies quit because they got demolish on your event.
A sense of hieharchy needs to apply!
Use Sombo as a platform.

[Tant01]

For my money

My point still stands.
This is a bjj and mma thread.
The fact is that I would pay and respect my BJJ blue belt to teach me because of what they have done in the ring.
If you cannot say the same about your Judo Blue belt is really your problem, not mine!
I must have lost your point, maybe learning from your Judo blue belt is no big deal!

You're a funny boy Mr. Dancer. When I was doing the Judo there was no such thing as a blue belt. The Pee-Wee players got a purple belt for 3rd-1st kyu and adults wear brown (5th kyu to 1st)

This thread is about THROWING in BJJ as in "nagewaza"... I've rolled with a few blue belts (in BJJ) Mr. Dancer they know their stuff but they are weak in the area of throwing. They have a hip throw, "fireman's carry" throw a few sweeps and a couple of "takedowns"... Can YOU think of other throws used by Jiu-jitsu players? Besides the trademark "superman" or some "flying" variation of a technique.

Why would any Gracie need or want Rank in Kodokan Judo? Do you know Helio was ranked by the Kodokan? Others (Gracie's) also have blackbelts in Judo...

BJJ blue belts at our humble academy excell at the Newaza, shimewaza and kansetsuwaza but they don't know the Judo names for their techniques. They all call Ude garami "Americana" or "Kimura" What's up with THAT?

They should pay ME to teach them the real Judo (names)