Kali Tudo and wing chun in mma

[Tom Yum]

Go to one of their gatherings and fight in it and then see if you can back those words up, boy.

LOL. Pwn3d

[Micker]

LOL. Pwn3d

LOL, did you read the quote from them?? They said that the UFC said they are too extreme for them. The reason they got a letter from the UFC stating they are too extreme, is because the idiots wanted to use freakin weapons. Basically they sent that letter to the UFC so they could quote them as saying they are too extreme. UFC is about hand to hand UNARMED combat.

Back up what words?? That the guys are just trying to hype themselves up?? If they were good enough, they wouldn't need to hype themselves up, they would be known for all the championship belts they would have. I bet you believe in the akido masters, who can throw people without touching them?? Think what you want. Let these guys prove how tough they are instead of talking about it.

[Tom Yum]

There's a little bit of marketing in every martial arts circle. That's just how people get their name out.

Have you seen the dog brothers train?!?

[Crafty Dog]

Well, if I may be indulged in a little bit of martial arts marketing, what happened was that in the early days there were no time limits on the fights and the format was of an 8 man tournament. Thus to win, one had to win three fights. In this context the man who won the first semi-finals had the advantage of substantially more rest for the finals than the man who won the second semi-finals.

To quiet complaints about this, the UFC (Art Davie and Rorion Gracie) hit upon the idea of having a style vs. style weapons fights just like the style vs. style of the empty hand fighting with the idea being that both of the EH finalists would have a chance to rest up for the finals during the weapons fight. So they asked around and lots of people sent them our way. Art called me and we chatted and he came by my house and I showed him videos of our fights and we talked some more.

He really wanted to do it but was concerned about finding worthy opponents (he was thinking of some nunchaku guys from France) and in his perceived absence thereof, also was talking about our fighting each other-- which is what we already we doing anyway.

Then Senator McCain starting yapping about "human cockfighting" and rather than take a chance of the whole house of cards being blown down, the UFC decided to wait until "next time". Which became "next time" again and again.


Art and I continued in contact. Indeed when time limits began and with it the need for judges, I was razzing him about the clueless traditional name people they were getting for judges.

"Heck, you guys are already doing this-- with sticks!" he said.

"So make me a judge!"

"Voila! You are a judge!"

And that is how I became a judge at UFC 10 (Mark Coleman took the title from Don Frye). They wanted me to continue, but although I had a fine time (e.g. watching Big John McCarthy's deadlift routine in the gym, chatting at the bar the night before with Tank Abbott in his prime, the fights themselves, etc) I decided to continue investing my time elsewhere. By the way, at present Lester "Surf Dog" Griffin regularly judges for the UFC.

But I digress , , ,

When Art and Rorion were selling out their interest in the UFC, he called me to tell me. It occurred to me that it would be nice to have proof that in the wild hey day of the UFC we were "too much" and so I asked him for a letter to that effect. He graciously agreed and wrote the letter which can be seen on our website.

And that is the story of the letter.

The Adventure continues,
Crafty Dog

[Tom Yum]

Crafty Dog, I've seen your training videos. You guys have been using judo/jujitsu with your weapon work almost before the time of UFC 1, is that true?

[Crafty Dog]

Not "almost before", before period!

I started with the Machado Brothers in July of 1990 . Chris Hauter, whom I knew from the Inosanto Academy and who is now a Machado BB, introduced us. I first used BJJ in our fighting in September of 1990-- after 9 weeks of training with Carlos Machado.

Also, I was the one who introduced Guro Inosanto to the Machados.

[Tom Yum]

Not "almost before", before period!

I started with the Machado Brothers in July of 1990 . Chris Hauter, whom I knew from the Inosanto Academy and who is now a Machado BB, introduced us. I first used BJJ in our fighting in September of 1990-- after 9 weeks of training with Carlos Machado.

Also, I was the one who introduced Guro Inosanto to the Machados.

Thanks for taking the time to talk to us, Crafty Dog.

Credit goes to you for looking into it before it became so trendy; I was busy looking at Judo Gene Labell's stuff.

Not to get off subject, but Chuck Norris has also been a long-time supporter of BJJ. I still remember the 2" x 2" Gracie Jiujitsu add in Black Belt Mag during the early 90's (before UFC), with Norris's quote:

"A man with one year of experience in (Gracie) Jiu-jitsu can beat a martial arts master with 30 years in another style"

[Crafty Dog]

Gene LeBell is real deal at a special level.

Actually I first heard of the Gracies when I was still training with Vunak, so it had to have been no later than 1986. He showed me footage that was later to become "Gracie JJ in Action". He began training with them. For unrelated reasons shortly thereafter we parted ways so when Chris Hauter introduced me to the Machados I was ready.

We had allowed grappling in our Dog Bro fights since the beginning (1988) but until I snuck in the BJJ we were clueless (except for Shark Dog Mark Lawson who trained with Gene LeBell). Top Dog saw the results for me and started with them too.

I met Chuck Norris somewhere in the early 90s over at the Machado school when all 5 brothers were under one roof. I've met a pretty goodly number of "famous" people and a goodly percentage of them are vapid and vain but he was very nice, very gracious, easy to talk to.

Chuck was very helpful in getting the Machados the attention that they deserved with the things that he said, the Walker Ranger episode built around them, demoing his new BJJ skills on Euro TV in front of an audience of millions he made sure to intro Carlos to the people and spoke well of him, many things like this.

The Adventure continues,
Crafty Dog

[Tant01]

Unworthy of quote...


.

I hope you're taking notes Mr. The folks you would diminish are as real as it gets. The whole fight industry world is a small one. If you knew who was who, you might realize they all know one another.

Show some respect.

[Tant01]

Brother at arms..

I just wanted to thank Crafty Dog for participating in the forum and indulging the comments of those who have no concept of what you all do and how long you have been doing it.

....

Yeah that!

"Woof" And thanks kindly Mr. D (Crafty Dog)

Some of us have a clue and really appreciate you here!

Press on.

[bjjp]

well i am a fma practioner and i trian in kali,and i do muay tai,bjj ect...and i use my kali in my muay tai as in the foot works and kicks because there the same really.but some stuff ass in the waving you hand like if you were weilding you stick seems kinda of funny idk if i would do that,in the cage.

[LoneHusky]

I don't really train kali but I really enjoy the dogbrothers videos and full contact philosphy.

[WildWest.]

Everything I've seen of the Dog Brothers is awesome yet they are hardly known at all down here which is a shame. All MA's can learn a lot from them I believe.

Personally I think their philosophy is sound, the respect the practitioners show each other demonstrates they are quality individuals and the desire to learn then test themselves then learn and test themselves is to be highly acknowledged and respected.

Comments made that are set out to degrade them, and anybody else who competes in full contact MA fighting, in anyway are only made by losers, wannabes and couch warriors and should be ignored.

Thanks for contributing Crafty, good luck and all the best.

[Crafty Dog]

If I understand bjjp's post correctly, he doubts the empty hand application of stickfighting motions.

Actually this is a very normal doubt.

I remember the first times at the RAW Gym (now R1)-- which is a serious MMA gym-- that I started waving my arms around like sticks that I got some really weird looks. However, because I have hit people with these movements with stick they also make sense to me EH.

Because of my age (I am now 54) the young fighters back off the intensity to something that is reasonable for me and we play. In this context I believe I have earned respect.

For those who are interested in the question of the EH application of the Art in the context of the cage/MMA, there is a full discussion in the thread "Kali Tudo"(c) on our forum. It opens with the article I wrote on this subject as it was before Black Belt modified it to meet their criteria. Then there is some additional discussion.

[WildWest.]

Crafty,

Could you post the link to your site please??

Thanks.