Limited Information On BJJ basics causing Confusion.

[Eager_Neophyte]

Hey,
I've been on plenty of forums before and I know how annoying it is to have someone come-in and ask painfully obvious questions that have been answered before. I realize that the following questions will fall into that category, but I'm really looking into BJJ and all the references I can find for it are for more advanced practitioners. Well This is my problem:

I practice Jeet Kune Do in a small rural town in Oklahoma. The only information I get is from places like this. I have an ebook I bought with explanations of what I assume are basic BJJ techniques. The Clinch?...The Rear Take Down..etc.. I try them out on my friends and they seem to not work for me. Now, I'm not an idiot, I know that these techniques work. I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'll just go through the ones listed here and hope for some helpful advice from any of you that can tolerate my infantile ignorance.

1. The Clinch
The guide says that after you have done the breast stroke-like maneuver you hook your hands over his triceps and using your fore-arms to control his movement. I think I get this... We were taught a joint lock like this in JKD. Now here's the strange part, It says "now complete the clinch by reaching around his back with one arm and moving to that side." Allright so do you let go of the arm that was under neath that arm to grab his waist or do you keep it under your arm. The picture seems to indicate the former. But that leaves his hand open to strike the back of your head. Where am I going wrong here?

I'll start with just that this guide is a little ambiguous and I'm a little more than confused . Thanks,
Eager_Neophyte

[OmaPlata]

thats what i never liked about the books, they always seem to skip steps in the pictures, and leave you guessing. theres no substitute for the real thing, might be better to order some DVDs. marcelo garcia has some really good ones. far as the clinch goes, im not good at it so theres my 1 cent

[covaliufan]

The particular moves you're talking about are actually from wrestling, not bjj.

The rear take down is very simple, but you'd do better to go find any high school or college wrestler in the world and ask him to show you rather than read a description by me.

As to the clinch: it's hard to tell from the way you worded it, but I want to make sure you realize the "clinch" isn't a specific technique, but rather a range of fighting, just as the ground is a range of fighting; the clinch is the situation of grabbing onto each other while standing. Your description doesn't capture any technique I've ever heard of. It's most common while in the clinch to swim for underhooks, that is, to get both arms underneath your opponents, and to clasp your hands together at his lower back. By pulling his lower body towards you his balance his broken; by keeping your upper body and head tight to him, there's no real room for him to hit you, and a simple trip with your foot will bring him crashing to the floor. Of course, there's a million other things you can do from the clinch.

Bjj is awesome, and what I train in, but you could learn an incredible amount in what you seem to be interested in by finding a decent wrestler to train with, even at the high school level. I'm assuming you can't find a school or teacher in bjj or else you'd be there and not using books; wherever you live, you can certainly find a wrestler to help you out. Go do that.

[Eager_Neophyte]

So the clinch is just really close combat range where your'e trying to get the guy to the ground. I see. It was listed along with the "Kimura" and other such things. Thanks for clearing things up and I'll try to find someone involved in wrestling around here. I've lived 10 years in a town of about 500 people now I live in a town of 2500. So yes your correct in your assumptions. I'd be lucky to find someone whose heard of jiu jitsu anywhere besides late night Spike tv. Anyhow thanks for the reply.
Eager_Neophyte

[covaliufan]

"So the clinch is just really close combat range where your'e trying to get the guy to the ground"

The clinch is when both fighters are standing and grabbing on to each other. Some people look for take downs. Other people look to control their opponents standing and look for opportunities to strike.

I know this thread has been about telling you not learning from books and instead finding competent training partners...but you could learn a lot about the basic ideas behind modern mma fighting by reading this book: Mastering Jujitsu by Renzo Gracie and John Danaher. It's not a great technical reference for learning moves, but their discussion of different ranges of fighting and different strategies based on these ranges is truly excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0736044043/qid=1124682544/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/103-4238127-5372616?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Eager_Neophyte]

Looks Great. I looked over the table of contents and the first few pages. It's on my wish list. Thanks Alot.

I know I should be learning from an instructor or at least from a friend, but its just not available here. Any kind of grappling instruction would be great but they only really offer it for highschoolers around here. Even if I could find it I don't have the money for more martial arts classes and I dont want to drop JKD. Its just my only option as far as I can tell. : (

I really appreciate the recources and the info. Thanks again.
Eager_Neophyte

[EmptyneSs]

dont waste your time with books when u have the internet. sure pictures arent the greatest, but u can look at tons of webpages of instruction in bjj techniques, and even dl videos of them from sites and p2p services. dont pay for books.

just type in bjj in google, and judo and google. that right there will provide u with access to many techniques. the official bjj site alone has tons and tons of techniques and even videos to check out. before i officially trained in ju jitsu, i picked up many moves and concepts from just looking at sites, going to the martial arts section of the library or books store and going over the material.and u know what, it did pay off. when i found a good place to train at i already understood some concepts and knew some techniques. u aint gonna master the art online, but u sure are going to at least pick up a few things. if u have a willing partner and are safe, u can practice many of these moves and learn alot more. its like studying. u need to keep going over concepts and techniques and try to understand what makes em work. its better than nothing.

if u use bearshare or kazaa, u can dl tons of free martial arts instruction videos. i myself downloaded a few bas rutten self defense videos, and some gracie ju jitsu videos for free from these programs. save ur money, u have a world of info at ur fingertips, and if u wanna look over books, just read em at the library or barnes and nobles. do what u can on your own until u can get better instruction.

as for the clinch u have tons of options, as mentioned. u can throw knees strikes, elbows, punches, throws, takedowns, anything and everything. its an important range. pure bjj isnt that great in the clinch, judo is much better. judo is all about the clinch range, were all those devastating throws, footsweeps, and different grips come into play.

[Eager_Neophyte]

I actually have very few books on martial arts. Cause I just don't have to much money, so I've spent alot of time on the internet learning about alot of different kind of martial arts. I didn't find that BJJ original until just recently, but I've been going to judoinfo.com for a while. I'll definetly look into that bjj site more.

I didnt know p2p had a bunch of stuff on it. I might look into that right there.
Thanks a lot for the info. Glad to hear it helped somebody to look up stuff on the internet. Like you said, it's better than nothing.
Thanks Again,
Eager_Neophyte