So you think BJJ is effective for street self defense?

[JaredExtreme]

the kind fo strenth and skill to defeat 52 raging bulls with your bare hands without dying?

I dunno, De Niro is getting pretty old I think I might be able to take him 52 times.

Shaolin Kung Fu is great for learning how to dance, I'll give it that.

[medic06]

wow, no bias there

[medic06]

I can't only use punches becuase I'm a boxer

I can't only use throws becuase I a wrestler/judo ka

I can't go to the ground becuase I am a wrester/BJJ player

I can't kick becuase TSD/TKD


So what is the point I will just do nothing becuase everybody is conviced that absolutely nothing works.

Damn everybody is a VTG or martial technique-er so few martials artist very sad.

REF budo and bujutsu absorb and learn

Not me. None of my techniques are effective. But then it's not my techniques fighting, it's me.

[SamuraiGuy]

Hmmm, lets see guys maybe Gong Fu has a point... lets look at a true shaolin master here....

David Carradine, AKA Quai Chang Kaine..... I've never seen him lose a fight... his slap kicks always worked after he used his kung fu knowledge to foresee what would happen, or travel back in time....

yes.... thats an excellent example...

or how bout Liu Kang, winner of the mortal kombat tournament, and shaolin monk.... he can throw fireballs...

another excellent example....

What a joke right,.... its funny though, cause those are the only two "shaolin monks" I can think of.... now by no means am I a chinese historian... but really.. if fighting is the thing Im most passionate about, and there were great shaolin monk fighters.. you think I would have heard about them... I've heard about great Sambo fighters from Russia, Great Muay Thai kickboxers in Thai Land, I even know of a few Savate practicioners in France... but I have never heard of a bona fide shaolin monk dominating the fighting world, or even dominating the self defense seen....

Now I'm sure there are alot of great Kung Fu, Gong Fu, Chow Mein Fu practicioners out there who could wipe the floor with me in a ring, or on the street. But I cant think of any famous ones, please enlighten me on who I should look too for this practical chinese gong fu you are talking about.

I'd also like to add, your real life stories and that, such as you crushing the other guys nuts/jabbing peoples eyes etc... is on the same level as Dojo stories.. or whatever else the other posters mentioned.. we are talking about proof... when you say, what I have done has worked... it very well might of, but that doesnt prove it to us, unless you have videos of it?....

I could say... I fought 3 Gong Fu practicioners at the same time and picked them apart with my Tai Chi, AND Icy cold stare but that doesnt prove I've done it.

Also you mentioned how a boxer would fare when thye dont have the gloves on... well I think it would be just about the same... you may have no gloves, and you may break your hand, but during that fight I doubt you will be thinking of it, and they wont say.. oops cant punch him got no gloves on...

Then theres the whole thing about the bulls... I really doubt he killed 52 pulls with his bare hands.. and knife chopped their horns off... I'm not sure about you, but I've seen a farmer smash a cow in the head with a shovel, (a farmer is generally stronger than your average person too).... and it didnt knock the cow out, im not sure if it... "ROCKED" him , err should I say her...haha.. but it didnt knock it out, never mind kill it... I doubt someone can kill a cow with their bare hands .. unless they try to pull out their intestines... which.. would be pretty gross... with that said... this was a cow, a female...

you were talking about bulls.... things which have evolved to be able to SMASH THEIR HEADS INTO things... and have insane neck muscles.... if a smash with a shovel wouldnt faze a cow, I doubt hte bull would care.

Also.... I've heard a story, and seen one time (in real life)... two people get a SINGLE (not 52) bull mad at them.... both of them ended up with broken backs... and thats only because the bull stopped caring about them... one was my grandpa and the other a farmer I worked with.... I highly doubt your bull thing.. but w/e.....

looking forward to the reply, hope you realize im not tryinhg to attack you or gong fu or any of that, just attacking your arguments (theres a difference)... also I'd seriously like to know any famous Gong Fu practicioner.. (besides Bruce Lee Ithink he did that didnt he?)...

oh and hows the shaolin teachings in England? Suppose it would be on the same level as Cricket in China...

[gong fu]

samurai guy, yeah thanks for replying to me with politeness first of all and hmm, you have some points, and i will gather some facts for you of gung fu people using there skills effectively in street fights, and self defence situations, just give me a little while, and yes valid point about me telling you what i have done or whitnessed from the people around me and my friends, thats why i dont talk to much about my experiences in detail because it would just seem liek a bunch of lies and crap to you all because ive been in some funky situations wich seem fake without proof, people probably think everything is junk that i say on this forum, anyway about the boxer thing i wasnt just meaning that, if you train all the time with gloves on for periods of time (wich ive done i used to box when i was younger) it feels wierd when you punch without gloves on, and when i hit the bag after without gloves on it kinda hurt my hands and scraped them, and it kinda made me rely on having gloves on, when i took the gloves off i was alot faster due to having the gloves on i admit that, because the gloves were heavy to me when i was young, but i started to not liek punching the bag or hard things without the gloves on, and i always did hand conditioning since a young age and the gloves kinda interfered with my other martial art training, if people train with and without the gloves then im not critisizing it atall, im just saying personally i think wearing gloves to hit the bag and train with every single time will soften you up, im not dissing wearing gloves in fights if you want to box or kickbox or do MMa competitions, thats all good i personally dont like fighting with protective gear especially headgear and big clumsy gloves it really does effect my full ability (not talking about UFC gloves ), but im not saying its hard to fight that way i can do it quite well if i have to say, but it just dosent feel right does anyone know what i mean?, and about self defence im not knocking any style whatsoever here im just saying wich is most effective for real fighting ont he street, boxers can use other techniques and do use other techniques when in a street fight, but if your a boxer using a thrust kick in a fight how did the boxing training help you learn how to kick properly?, it dosent thats just cross training or streetfighting that a boxer is using, and something like say gung fu or muay thai, i would personally say they teach you a more well rounded fighting style for dealing with a streetfighter when there are no rules or safety nets,


and i dont know too much about BJJ but from what i can see its not very effective against multiple opponents with weapons, im not saying just because i pracyise a few styles of gung fu i can beat down 3 guys with blades i would rather run, but my gung fu and other arts help me in real situations me and my best friend (training partner for like 15 years) always incorperate cross training with real situations, i will discuss our training methods in another thread if anyone is actually interested probably not but im willing to share if anyone needs advise or something on real situation training, using fake weapons certain locations, multiple people if our other training partners are present, i will explain one briefly to you for an idea if your wondering, ok 1 person turns there back the other people choose a weapon conceal it or have it int here waist or sock or in hand sometimes, say there was 3 people attacking 2 of them take weapons and the other stays unnarmed, then the defender turns around and they advance on him while he is cornered or confined (or a different location depending on the scenario that time around) the defender has to asses the situation who has a weapon who is the one to worry about, how to defend no time to think just have to react, this kind of training actually makes you think about the real effectiveness of certain was of fighting when it really counts most,

[gong fu]

oh and samurai guy i forgot this, here is where i do my shaolin training.

http://shaolintempleuk.org/

and about mas oyama the bull slayer you dont believe it? its not a myth or olden day story he was alive in the last century its documented fact about what he did not a little folk tale from the far east, here read up man.


video clips of mas oyama (they dont seem to work for me but theres video evidence of him killing bulls bare handed look it up)

http://www.superkarate.ru/video_kyokushin/mas_oyama_video_clips.htm

heres basicaly oyamas life story but if you dont want to read the whole thing i will copy and paste the part about him fighting people and the bulls below.

http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/oyama/

Mas Oyama, in order to show the strength of his karate, tested his strength by fighting raging bulls bare-handed. It was a mismatch from the get-go for the bulls, not for Oyama. In all, he fought 52 bulls, three of which were killed instantly, and 49 had their horns taken off with knife hand blows. That it is not to say that it was all that easy for him. Oyama was fond of remembering that his first attempt just resulted in an angry bull. In 1957, at the age of 34, he was nearly killed in Mexico when a bull got some of his own back and gored him. Oyama somehow managed to pull the bull off and break off his horn. He was bedridden for 6 months while he recovered from the usually fatal wound. Today of course, the animal rights groups would have something to say about these demonstrations, despite the fact that the animals were all destined for slaughter.
In 1952, he travelled the United States for a year, demonstrating his karate live and on national television. During subsequent years, he took on all challengers, resulting in fights with 270 different people. The vast majority of these were defeated with one punch! A fight never lasted more than three minutes, and most rarely lasted more than a few seconds. His fighting principle was simple — if he got through to you, that was it.
If he hit you, you broke. If you blocked a rib punch, you arm was broken or dislocated. If you didn't block, your rib was broken. He became known as the Godhand, a living manifestation of the Japanese warriors' maxim Ichi geki, Hissatsu or "One strike, certain death". To him, this was the true aim of technique in karate. The fancy footwork and intricate techniques were secondary (though he was also known for the power of his head kicks).

[Ronson]

The website is a f-uckin' joke.

The extremely short, brutally edited bull clips is b_ullshit.

The "sparring" is laughable - can you say orchestrated? His opponent is a joke - he falls before he's hit or falls to phantom strikes. WTF?

Your criteria for proof is suspect. We demand better proof - 3rd party perhaps? How about longer, unedited clips? Cause if that's all you got, you ain't got shite.

[LoneHusky]

interesting story though.

[blitz]

err how about reference from my own life experiences, where yes i have crushed peoples balls in fights, no i havent "plucked" anyones eyeball from there socket who said pluck?, i have shoved fingers into peoples eyes, i have palm smashed someones neck i have choped someones neck, why would i speak from things ive seen on TV or "Dojo" stories when i have my own life as a reference, and how about the man who actually trained like a real warrior using traditional training like i said works previously for real situations, MAS OYAMA he was a real warrior who would tear your fucking UFC heroes heads right off there shoulders liek they were stick men, this guy killed 52 full grown bulls with his bare hands, he choped off most of there horns with a knife edge strike right through the thick ass horns, in your precious no holds bared tournys, he knocked out the guys with 1 single punch and was undefeated, now that is what i call a real fighter who uses simular training to the shaolin monks, lots of hand conditioning and traditional kata training, lots of basic training every day, he was a dedicated warrior who tore foes apart and he did not use modern training he was a traditional guy, now can any of you people tell me of any modern training fighter who has suppased that kind of strenth? the kind fo strenth and skill to defeat 52 raging bulls with your bare hands without dying? and slaying them all?

Mas Oyama took Karate. He killed a man with one punch, and after that he stopped training for a while because he didn't think killing was necessary. Then he came back and practiced alone and he punched rocks/trees etc.. ofcourse he did it gradually so he wont get injured. His training was normal Karate training except he took it to another level. I respect Mas Oyama, but if you want to use an example use someone who took shaolin.

[jubaji]

err how about reference from my own life experiences, where yes i have crushed peoples balls in fights, no i havent "plucked" anyones eyeball from there socket who said pluck?, i have shoved fingers into peoples eyes, i have palm smashed someones neck i have choped someones neck, why would i speak from things ive seen on TV or "Dojo" stories when i have my own life as a reference, and how about the man who actually trained like a real warrior using traditional training like i said works previously for real situations, MAS OYAMA he was a real warrior who would tear your fucking UFC heroes heads right off there shoulders liek they were stick men, this guy killed 52 full grown bulls with his bare hands, he choped off most of there horns with a knife edge strike right through the thick ass horns, in your precious no holds bared tournys, he knocked out the guys with 1 single punch and was undefeated, now that is what i call a real fighter who uses simular training to the shaolin monks, lots of hand conditioning and traditional kata training, lots of basic training every day, he was a dedicated warrior who tore foes apart and he did not use modern training he was a traditional guy, now can any of you people tell me of any modern training fighter who has suppased that kind of strenth? the kind fo strenth and skill to defeat 52 raging bulls with your bare hands without dying? and slaying them all?

Keep talkin' kid, you are just solidifying your image.

[JkD187]

wow this gong fu guy needs a hobby.....

[Sensei Saki]

I'm glad you're impressed. What does "this" refer to?

[gong fu]

hey ok im not even gonna bother posting anything more about mas oyama because you guys wont even believe something that is true its funny,
and insulting me on a forum or saying i need a hobby isnt going to achieve anything just prove you have nothing better to say than a half witted comment. funny how someone joins a forum after getting connection to the internet for the first time in his life when he is 21, posts some opinion on a martial arts forum and people act like he is some kind of perso who does nothing but chats online, well what about the 21 years of my life ebfore i had internet what you think i was doing, training thats what and learning combat skills, and getting married and having a good time, (apart from jail) and people go and critisize im gonna stop posting on this forum for awhile ebcause people here arent actually as wise as they think and are kinda annoying,

funny how people make assumptions about others.


ile check back in a couple months maybe you guys will have sorted your selfs out by then ile come back with footage of me and proof of everything i have told you guys but at my convenience just to shut a few people up but not dissrespectfully.


peace

[JkD187]

i mean no disrespect....i kno you are talking about me here among others,However i too have trained martial arts for almost 11 years and im not doubting what you say its just that you among other people rant on about the street vs sport thing and its a dead debate.Obviously you do not want to go to the ground intentionally or clinch intentionally...you want to keep a distance from your opponent so you have optimum movement and escape chances.As you know things dont always go your way and u might be forced into one of those positions weither you like or not so clinching ang ground skills are nessicary along with stand up and weapons,escape tactics and a good mindset to become as complete as you can.I consider myself a combat athlete and by that i mean:i will keep an optimum level of fitness and conditioning,train all my techniques and strageties against an opponent who is uncooperative,take whatever i can from any martial art and train it so i can utalize it,train for my tournys and fights,train self defense as realistic as i can with different minsets and strageties then my ring fights also using protective headgear for my partner so i can strike full blast.The street vs sport debate is old because sport fighters use what works against resistance so in a street fight im sure they will hold their own i mean they are not stupid they do realize that there are multi ppl or weapons out there...but for the some who dont and think they are superman well then you can keep talking about them.

[medic06]

It's an on going debate because realistically who wins in the street altercation is still more of a crap shoot than anyone here truly wants to believe. There are just way too many variables.