Scrap vs. Martial Arts

[twtguy]

You make very valid points Boarspear. Many boxers that I work with have no control, and in a street fight, they might hurt someone more than they would like to. This makes for poor self-defense, but I think that if one is good enough in any martial art, traditional or not, you could see the whole picture and have a better understanding of how you could calm the situation down. Do you see what Im saying? An example would be...If someone threw a punch at me in the street, I would try and parry it and give them a good tap to discourage them (most likely a body shot). This would set him back, and I would try to talk my way out of it from there.

[Eyegouge]

dude I would have read what you said and paid attention to you if you didn't call Royce Gracie.....Joyce Gracie.....Joyce? where the hell did you get Joyce mutha fuka?....lol....man thats sum funny shit....joyce...hahaha....oh man....isn't joyce some 1950's womans name??.....dude b4 u try to make a point.....oh man nvm it's too funny....

[BoarSpear]

good points as well boar....however i have just one question and id like your opinion on the matter.When it comes to strikes to the groin...brainstem...eyes...throat etc etc how do you train these techniques.

Very carefully Seriously man when we strike its lightly when sparring. We also dont hit you in places i wouldnt hit in a real fight. When i slap your face with a cupped palm that covers your eyes and nose, we both know you would be on your ass, but we dont stop, the throw that is there in the flow happens less than a second later anyway and is followed up either with a light contact stomp to the head or neck/throat. If the strike finish isnt available or the throw is countered then we work ground....Very few people are still in the fight after a proper palm strike to the chin/throat...yes we slap the groin if you leave it exposed. if i can stick a finger in your eyes...i will poke you right under it to make you aware of it...we emphasize finish fast and dirty without taking unnecessary risk. I know everyone says they do that...i guess you just have to see it to understand...ask Mike Brewer if Paul Vunak has to actually bite you 100% for it to be real. Do i have to rip your eye out in sparring? isnt the fact you cant keep my palms out of your face/throat and groin evidence youre gonna have a long day? if you pull your defence up to stop the palm strikes i will throw you when you forget to watch your stepping.

There are several people on here who can attest that if we trained at anywhere near 100% someone would wind up in the hospital...Velcro? (or any of the rest of you lurkers)...wanna comment? you just came home from the sand box...Wanna spar me or my wife at 100%? or any other student for that matter....

[JkD187]

If you have ever spent some time in a gym working on your stand up....clinch and ground skills espically for over a year then you will be able to handle yourself in 99.999% of any unarmed one on one conflict.Multi people vs one person "training" is a joke and a waste of time....running is what you should be spending that time on .....and for weapons krav maga should serve you well.....but just like you practice your unarmed tech against resistance you also have to train your armed techs against a resisting opponent.If a tech is to "deadly" to train then that simply means it dose not work when there is actual resistance....guys like george dillman are pathetic with there pressure point bs.

[Eyegouge]

and give them a good tap to discourage them (most likely a body shot). This would set him back, and I would try to talk my way out of it from there.

I dare you to punch anyone trying to fight you, once, then back away and start talking....while your mouth is open talking your going to get a fist shoved in it.... If a guy is trying to fight you, and you punch him, in the next 15 seconds 25-40 punches are going to be thrown. Your going to have your hands full if you are actually fighting someone. You have to put em down....you have to really really hurt them....one gut stick isn't going to stop diddly.

[twtguy]

I dare you to punch anyone trying to fight you, once, then back away and start talking....while your mouth is open talking your going to get a fist shoved in it.... If a guy is trying to fight you, and you punch him, in the next 15 seconds 25-40 punches are going to be thrown. Your going to have your hands full if you are actually fighting someone. You have to put em down....you have to really really hurt them....one gut stick isn't going to stop diddly.

If youre good enough It would. But, Im not good enough so...youre right...more would be needed.

[BoarSpear]

You make very valid points Boarspear. Many boxers that I work with have no control, and in a street fight, they might hurt someone more than they would like to. This makes for poor self-defense, but I think that if one is good enough in any martial art, traditional or not, you could see the whole picture and have a better understanding of how you could calm the situation down. Do you see what Im saying? An example would be...If someone threw a punch at me in the street, I would try and parry it and give them a good tap to discourage them (most likely a body shot). This would set him back, and I would try to talk my way out of it from there.

Good points man, but is popping some joker with a body shot boxing? just because i kick you doesnt mean it was kung fu...just because i throw you doesnt mean its judo...double leg takedowns dont make you a wrestler. you dont have to box to be able to hit people with a body shot...you just have to box to hit boxers with body shots. it seems that boxers dont really box in streetfights anymore than TMA people go Jackie Chan on them. We all use the tools set our arts build. It seems to me the only 2 arts that fight exactly like they they train are MT and BJJ.

[JkD187]

I spar 100% resistance all the time....i hit hard but not as hard as i can or like you said someone would be in the hospital.I didnt mean 100% in terms of strength of the blow just 100% in the fact that the other person is actually trying to hit me back hard and fast....just not at 100% more like 80%...i practice my grappling at 100% speed power and resistance...the only time i slow down is when i have the move locked in and i gradualy increase the pressure till the tap.In a streetfight if i ever use my grappling or submission skills (which was only like twice) then i will be violently locking those techniques on with full speed....an armbar done with nice intentions gets a tap....an armbar with not so nice intentions gets a huge snap.Those snaps have been well documented on various tapes.As for Paul Vunak (who i consider to be the best self defense guy on the planet) he trains biting and gouging by simulation...but he will actually bite down a bit or stick the thub in there a bit.Paul advises using muay thai...savate...western boxing....dumog......bjj...sambo....kali...wing chun and many other "sport" arts as his base because when its 100% resistance (he puts the helmet on people when they spar full contact) they have proven to work the best.I Train the gouges and bites the same way.....however i am skeptical on the brainstem and pressure points strikes which you say youve used so id like your opinion on those boar.

[JkD187]

o and id love to spar you boar .

[BoarSpear]

If you have ever spent some time in a gym working on your stand up....clinch and ground skills espically for over a year then you will be able to handle yourself in 99.999% of any unarmed one on one conflict.Multi people vs one person "training" is a joke and a waste of time....running is what you should be spending that time on .....and for weapons krav maga should serve you well.....but just like you practice your unarmed tech against resistance you also have to train your armed techs against a resisting opponent.If a tech is to "deadly" to train then that simply means it dose not work when there is actual resistance....guys like george dillman are pathetic with there pressure point bs.

If you think im ANYTHING like Dillman youre sadly mistaken. I started boxing and wrestling 30 years ago JJJ shortly after that... the ground isnt new to me, im tired of it. I finally have the speed and power in my TMA's that i trust my strikes to land exactly where i want them with an opponent who tries to grapple. why do i think this? because ive been playing the ground game for 30 years, i "know"it, and i "know" where the strikes i want to land "fit" in the flow of a fight because of it.

[JkD187]

good as long as your nothing like dillman then i will try to understand how you actually train....cuz dillmans a piece of shit.

[Eyegouge]

Boar, what style do you use?....i mean, what do you call what you teach?

[twtguy]

Good points man, but is popping some joker with a body shot boxing? just because i kick you doesnt mean it was kung fu...just because i throw you doesnt mean its judo...double leg takedowns dont make you a wrestler. you dont have to box to be able to hit people with a body shot...you just have to box to hit boxers with body shots. it seems that boxers dont really box in streetfights anymore than TMA people go Jackie Chan on them. We all use the tools set our arts build. It seems to me the only 2 arts that fight exactly like they they train are MT and BJJ.

Youre right. I was just saying that because it was my first art. And even without the others I have learned...I think I could still control myself.

[BoarSpear]

Paul advises using muay thai...savate...western boxing....dumog......bjj...sambo....kali...wing chun and many other "sport" arts as his base because when its 100% resistance (he puts the helmet on people when they spar full contact) they have proven to work the best.I Train the gouges and bites the same way.....however i am skeptical on the brainstem and pressure points strikes which you say youve used so id like your opinion on those boar.

I got the Paul Vunak experience up close an personal in the 80's i know ALL about his methods...i live and die by them...i think for SD he is the man to see.

as for PP we hit them also...there are less than 10 practical points but hell yes we use them, and hell yes they work. You know the thigh kick from MT? Try aiming it right where the opponents longest finger rest when his hands are at his side. (GB 34) Try hitting that same point with an upward strike...it usually unweights the leg...that makes it much easier for you to lift it strike it with your knee upwards then snag the leg when it raises in response to the strike. As for stuns GB 20 NOT ST 9!!!!!!!... try it yourself...be careful!! use so little force it cant possibly hurt, then add power till it stuns...you will be suprised how little force it takes...different directions of the strike make ALL the difference One of them works 1000% better than the rest...also its in how you deliver the strike...if you dont know how to deliver stunning strikes its gonna be a long dangerous painful road though.

Ugh my common sense just kicked in...if you dont know about this dont try it go buy Earle Montaques (sp) dimmak tape its about 35 dollars....cheap to "see for yourself"... from paladin press...after watching the tape try those strikes...see for yourself.

As for training with 100% resistance, its possible to defend with close to 100% focus and intensity. but its not possible to attack with 100% focus and intensity...therfore you arent really defending at 100 percent..see my point?..

when someone puts on padding to make it safer...now they cant attack as well ....there is no perfect solution...it just worries me to hear this 110% stuff thats a dangerous mentality. NO one in class attacks you like a freaked out methhead or a violent rapist....because we really dont wanna hurt each other even when fighting people often shrink from damaging another person....certainly this effects training with friends....the training in the ring is an essential skill...its this SD mindset that people want to attach that makes me worry for those who it may get hurt...that will make all MA's look bad if it becomes a problem...When you say you spar at 100% you really try to break your opponents knee when you kick it? you really try to snatch him off his feet by the belt and top of his pants while thrusting an upward palm at his throat and face, as you knee him full force in the balls etc? you go to class and think, i hope no one gets injured, not lets see how many people i can injure...when you spar 110% all the time as people claim and people arent going to the hospital...then what you are doing is a gentlemans challenge match at most...At no time is the fear of facing an MMA guy in the ring for the title ANYTHING like facing a crackhead much less a trained opponent with a knife. Neither one prepares you for the other.

Fear, anger, DANGER, RAGE and psychotic criminal assault at no time appear in anyones training...so NONE of us practice or spar at 110% of our abilities...women have been known to pick up cars of their family members under stress....thats the real world...the ring prepares you for civil altercation. not life preservation.

[BoarSpear]

o and id love to spar you boar .

Well if youre like EVERY other @#%en yankee im sure youll make it to FL sooner or later JJ...no im not.. drop me a line at my email we can discuss the finer points of the martial arts to your hearts content when you get here.