Where do Royce, Ken, and Sak stand now?

[Mr. Miyagi]

In the aftermath of that short sweet Pride fight between Sakuraba and Ken "the most dangerous man in the world" Shamrock, did this fight suggest other possibilities or shed light on where certain fighters stand??
I know Sak has been training chutebox with Vanderlei, but from what I saw, he dropped Ken with a simple straight punch, not exactly a sophisticated muy thai move. And Ken is a lot bigger and stronger than Sak. The KO was a flash KO, but Ken was clearly out and in danger after that shot, the stoppage was correct.
Royce hung with Sakuraba for an hour and a half without being submitted or KO'd. Sak was clearly in charge, but still.
Yoshida lasted the distance against Vanderlei, the top LHW at the time, maybe now as well. He actually gave Wandy a difficult time in that fight.
Royce dominated Yoshida in their rematch fight. Some of this may have had to do with Royce surprising Yoshida by taking off the gi right before the fight started. But even so, Royce outgrappled and outstruck him by far.

my questions:
1. Would Ken Shamrock be able to hold his own against Yoshida? Yoshida wouldn't KO him, obviously, but would Ken's grappling skills and cardio hold up in this matchup?
2. Seeing that Sak was able to KO Ken so quickly, how would Ken do against Vanderlei? Would Vanderlei give him a brutal beatdown?
3. If Royce and Ken fought again, does it seem that Royce would prevail? With Ken's cardio being questionable and the fact that Royce has been more impressive (vs Sak and Yoshida) than Ken (vs Tito, Fujita, and Sak), doesn't it seem likely that Royce would probably outlast Ken?
4. Is it possible to come up with any arguments (based on previous fights) how Rickson would do in a fight with Ken?
5. Royce's weight division in Pride would pit him against fighters like Murilo Bustamante, Dan Henderson, and Carlos Newton. These are some tough guys. I think he would do well against Newton, it'd be close. Would he have any chance against Busta or Henderson?
6. Is Ken's career as a top fighter over? Was he overrated in the first place?

[eXcessiveForce]

Wow, long time since i've seen you on here. Welcome back

[EmptyneSs]

In the aftermath of that short sweet Pride fight between Sakuraba and Ken "the most dangerous man in the world" Shamrock, did this fight suggest other possibilities or shed light on where certain fighters stand??
I know Sak has been training chutebox with Vanderlei, but from what I saw, he dropped Ken with a simple straight punch, not exactly a sophisticated muy thai move. And Ken is a lot bigger and stronger than Sak. The KO was a flash KO, but Ken was clearly out and in danger after that shot, the stoppage was correct.
Royce hung with Sakuraba for an hour and a half without being submitted or KO'd. Sak was clearly in charge, but still.
Yoshida lasted the distance against Vanderlei, the top LHW at the time, maybe now as well. He actually gave Wandy a difficult time in that fight.
Royce dominated Yoshida in their rematch fight. Some of this may have had to do with Royce surprising Yoshida by taking off the gi right before the fight started. But even so, Royce outgrappled and outstruck him by far.

my questions:
1. Would Ken Shamrock be able to hold his own against Yoshida? Yoshida wouldn't KO him, obviously, but would Ken's grappling skills and cardio hold up in this matchup?
2. Seeing that Sak was able to KO Ken so quickly, how would Ken do against Vanderlei? Would Vanderlei give him a brutal beatdown?
3. If Royce and Ken fought again, does it seem that Royce would prevail? With Ken's cardio being questionable and the fact that Royce has been more impressive (vs Sak and Yoshida) than Ken (vs Tito, Fujita, and Sak), doesn't it seem likely that Royce would probably outlast Ken?
4. Is it possible to come up with any arguments (based on previous fights) how Rickson would do in a fight with Ken?
5. Royce's weight division in Pride would pit him against fighters like Murilo Bustamante, Dan Henderson, and Carlos Newton. These are some tough guys. I think he would do well against Newton, it'd be close. Would he have any chance against Busta or Henderson?
6. Is Ken's career as a top fighter over? Was he overrated in the first place?

let me just answer all your questions at once real quick : "it all depends"

[vadrip]

1.Ken vs Yoshida would not be indicative of anything either Yoshida wins by decision or Ken by sub, a ko wouldn't be likely be either being that Yoshida has too good a chin and would take punishment, but not as likely to be ko'ed. Yoshida has no striking skills so a ko from his is very unlikely and Yoshida's groundgame is really not that good, so I'd give Ken a slide edge in the submission game.

2.Wanderlai would beat Ken down, not need to discuss further.

3.Royce could outlast Ken possibly, but Ken has a good chance to ko Royce as well so if it ends early more than likely Ken by ko, if it goes on longer than 5 minutes than Royce either by sub or decision.

4.Doubtful, that Rickson would ever fight Ken, Rickson likes to fight guys that don't pose much of any threat.

5.I don't Royce is even thinking about fighting guys in the mw division he'd much rather fight over the hill and inexperienced fighters rather than risk being beaten by legit fighters.

6.Yeah, Ken was a pioneer in the idea of crosstraining, but with all his injuries and his declining athleticism has hampered him in his fighting. No, he wasn't the greatest fighter, but he was there when American got it's first taste of vale tudo, which later became MMA. Yes, he was always overrated, he stood more as figurehead for MMA rather than a champion.

[BigRod]

1. Would Ken Shamrock be able to hold his own against Yoshida? Yoshida wouldn't KO him, obviously, but would Ken's grappling skills and cardio hold up in this matchup?

I wouldn't go so far as to say Yoshida couldn't KO Ken. After all, did anyone really expect Sak to KO Ken? Yoshida wins this fight, by decision if nothing else.

2. Seeing that Sak was able to KO Ken so quickly, how would Ken do against Vanderlei? Would Vanderlei give him a brutal beatdown?

This is a rhetorical question, right?

3. If Royce and Ken fought again, does it seem that Royce would prevail? With Ken's cardio being questionable and the fact that Royce has been more impressive (vs Sak and Yoshida) than Ken (vs Tito, Fujita, and Sak), doesn't it seem likely that Royce would probably outlast Ken?

I'm not sure how impressive Royce has been of late, and it surely wasn't his fight against Sak. I suppose you could say his last fight against Yoshida was somewhat impressive, but I honestly think that had to do more with injuries and lack of adequate preparation on Yoshida's part. Outside of Yoshida, Royce has been fighting nobodies. In fact, he hasn't fought much at all.

All that aside, this is probably the best possible match up for Ken. Ken has the advantage of size and strength, and I'd like to think he's learned enough to give Royce a really hard time if they were to go at it again. But then again, Ken's performance has been terrible lately.

I have no idea who would win this one. It would probably be as boring as their last fight.

4. Is it possible to come up with any arguments (based on previous fights) how Rickson would do in a fight with Ken?

You will never see Rickson fight again, and if by some miracle he did, it would be against a scrub that my grandmother could beat.

But in regard to the question, well, I don't know. Rickson hasn't fought since 2000, that's a lot of ring rust. Nor can I attest to the quality of opponents he's beaten. On the other hand, Ken is active, but not performing well. Who knows? I would have to guess Rickson by submission if he can make it past the first round.

5. Royce's weight division in Pride would pit him against fighters like Murilo Bustamante, Dan Henderson, and Carlos Newton. These are some tough guys. I think he would do well against Newton, it'd be close. Would he have any chance against Busta or Henderson?

No. Probably not even Newton.

6. Is Ken's career as a top fighter over? Was he overrated in the first place?

Ken's career has been over. He should either retire, or Pride and/or the UFC should put him against the other pioneers of the early MMA days...Royce, Severn, Taktarov, you know, all the old school guys. Ken has no business in the ring with the new breed of fighters.

And yes, he was always overrated.

[OmaPlata]

Well its so so so so so so so so obvious that now that Ken is the Coach on the Ultimate Fighter, and Tito is the other Coach, you guys HAVE to know at the end of the season they are going to fight. I would BET anything on that. All season Ken will heckle Tito and vice versa, until it builds up into a big fight. I think Ken can still fight pretty good. He gasses early and sometimes get caught. but you can never count that guy out against anybody in MMA. Ken comes to fight.
Far as Royce, he would lose to Ken if they faught again. Ken has been to active and his ground game is much improved from 12 years ago or whatever it was when they faught.
Sak is a gimmick these days. He never impressed me, aside maybe from catching Renzo in that Kimura from standing position, Ive seen the guy submit anybody or do anything impressive except cartwheels

[JkD187]

Well its so so so so so so so so obvious that now that Ken is the Coach on the Ultimate Fighter, and Tito is the other Coach, you guys HAVE to know at the end of the season they are going to fight. I would BET anything on that. All season Ken will heckle Tito and vice versa, until it builds up into a big fight. I think Ken can still fight pretty good. He gasses early and sometimes get caught. but you can never count that guy out against anybody in MMA. Ken comes to fight.
Far as Royce, he would lose to Ken if they faught again. Ken has been to active and his ground game is much improved from 12 years ago or whatever it was when they faught.
Sak is a gimmick these days. He never impressed me, aside maybe from catching Renzo in that Kimura from standing position, Ive seen the guy submit anybody or do anything impressive except cartwheels

Never submit anybody???? damn you must never heard of Quinton jackson....kevein randleman....vernon tiger white.....carlos newton...etc etc etc...many many more.

[loui_ludwig]

Question 1:Ken could hold his own against Yoshida. As far as who is the winner, well they have to fight first then will find out.

Question 2: I am fan of Wandelei Silva, but i am a bigger fan of Ken. If this 2 guys go to the ring, i would root for Ken, but Wanderlei will win. 2 reasons, Silva is better in standing/striking skills, and good at stopping takedowns. The only weakness i see in Silva is if u have land one good punch, he can be rock. But he is also good at clinching after he gets rocks, just watch him against Guy Mezger and Dan Henderson. If Ken can throw some good punches against Silva like he did against Fujita, he probably have a chance of winning, but he nees to avoid Silva's clinch.

Question 3: If Royce and Ken fought for a 3rd time, if it is Pride or UFC rules, then Ken can win, but if it is a special rule requested by Royce, 30 minutes or more, then Royce can win. Ken will probably train harder not just on striking or submission skills but also with his cardio if this fight ever happens. Royce might last 30 min or an hour, but remember his superfight against Ken and his fight against Sakuraba, he had to be carried. So, both fighters cardio are in question.

Question 4: Only millions of dollars can bring Rickson to fight today, not only against Ken, but also Silva, Bas Rutten, and Marco Ruas. Is Rickson a top mma fighter? his a legend in BJJ but no, his not a top mma fighter.

Question 5: Royce has a chance against today's fighter in his weight class, but against BJ Penn, Dan Hederson, Bustamante, its probabaly slim. Against Newton, Matt Hughes, 50/50 chance. Against Phil Baroni, Tanner, Rich Franklin, Royce has a better chance of winning. Some of u probably will ask twhy Royce can beat Franklin, i said yes, because i don't know how good Rich Franklin's grappling skills abd his stopping of takedowns..

Question 6: Is Ken done as a top fighter, we can say yes because he has lost to Ortiz, Franklin, and Sakuraba, but he believes that he as a couple of years left, so only time will tell if he is done. He might have a slim chance of winning against Ortiz, but that slim chance might prevail against Tito.
Ken is not overrated. Look at the people that he fought and won.
Pancrase: Fujita, Rutten, Maurice Smith,
UFC: Dan Severn, Brian Johnston, Patrick Smith, Kimo
and the draw against Taktarov, if there were judges, Ken would have gotten the decision. Even the boring superfight against Royce, the decision will go to Ken. The lost against Fujita, Ken said his heart was beating fast, but he dominated the fight. Fujita did not do any damage to Ken.

[LoneHusky]

Kens just not as fiesty as he used to be. Much respect though.