on 1-13-06 i will be on my birthday

[THT]

WHAAA??? not so dude Martial arts are war arts...things not self defense related are sport or the the WAY hence the DO on the end of the word...when the lethal techniques were removed and morality began being taught the martial arts began to die people who added things not related to war/fighting and removing the self defense capabilities is what left them in the place to be exploited by the MMA craze in the first place...

thats my whole beef dude, the crap sold today as martial arts in isnt...its a hobby, and has nothing to do with the martial arts....your acceptance of that proves my point, the martial arts being taught arent martial at all..

I like the points made here. It's true. The muay thai I practice is a sport and hobby. Not that I couldn't fu_k some people up with it, but it is much less lethal than when it's origional intention was to be able to kill someone within a few moves.

And when Kano removed the lethal moves to make randoori possible without killing, it was a benefit in that it made training all out possible, but did also begin the time of things like olympic judo and bjj (a sport, albeit a good way to whoop ass, still a sport).

I'm glad to be able to participate in these arts without worrying about being killed. The sporting aspect is fun, and I still feel these arts are great for defense in a bar fight or whatever. Although while my elbows may cut your face, they'll never slit your throat.

[OmaPlata]

Boar is just one these crying babies that hasnt, and still cannot because of his antiquated years on the planet,. learn Gracie Jiu Jitsu. So he bashes it, knowing full well it OWNS whatever turd art he learned in the 60's, let me guess, the flying kick chuck norris style stuff? lol.
You pick the 43 yr old Royler to bash on when theres 100's o MMA guys, and multiple champions that are all BJJ black belts. If you arent well versed on the ground, you will get killed in MMA no matter what style you have. If BJJ isnt the best on the ground, why does it dominate the ADCC? ANd by the way, judo throws come from jiu jitsu, its a branch that was developed to make it a "family" sport and much safer than grappling in BJJ. Many throws taught in BJJ,GJJ, come from JUDO however.
Gee everyone of these guys, out of the 100s that dominate the sport, are balck belts, except for Franklin, hes brown stil I think. The Gracie's havent helped these guys at all, youre right, why bother with BJJ at all in MMA or a street fight?
Rich Franklin
Murilo "Ninja" Rua
Renato "Babalu" Sobral
Marcio "Pe de Pano" Cruz
Stephan Bonnar
Murilo Bustamante
Mauricio 'Shogun' Rua
Wanderlei Silva
Diego Sanchez
BJ Penn
Renzo Gracie
Rogerio "Minotouro" Nogueira
Antonio Rodrigo "Minotoro" Nogueira
Ricardo Arona
Matt Serra
Nick Diaz
Crosley Gracie
Dean Lister
Vitor Belfort
Ivan Salaverry
Mario Sperry
Rodrigo Gracie

[BoarSpear]

Yeah, but by that logic, no one that trains in anything short of machine gunnery and artillery tactics is practicing true "martial arts."

I'm just saying that there's a purpose for any kind of training out there - for some people it's enoug that they enjoy it.

Nope, that doesnt fly, h2h still exists...albiet its terribly diminished as you yourself lamented...

also, those arts were founded and used in past military history...an antique pistol will still kill you, as will an antique sword and i suppose an antique ball (that would be a rock ) is dangerous. so sure even sports are dangerous, but that isnt their primary goal, safety and fun is...war arts primary goal is killing the opponent before he kills you, HOWEVER you can manage to win, thats martial art.

[SamuraiGuy]

Really Omoplata, I respect the gracies and their jiu jitsu, but your starting to sound like a broken record...

Also, of all the guys you listed.. how many of them were trained by an actual Gracie.. I think in this thread we established Boar's problem was with the gracies, and GJJ, not BJJ...

I know Franklin was trained by a Gurgel, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume the Rua's were trained by Rua's

Once again I'm not bashing Gracie's, but I think you need to realize Boar is attacking GJJ, not BJJ...

And saying BJJ dominates the ADCC, is not the same as saying GJJ, dominates the ADCC... they arent interchangeable because not everyone good at BJJ, is a gracie...

[BoarSpear]

Boar is just one these crying babies that hasnt, and still cannot because of his antiquated years on the planet,. learn Gracie Jiu Jitsu. So he bashes it, knowing full well it OWNS whatever turd art he learned in the 60's, let me guess, the flying kick chuck norris style stuff? lol.
You pick the 43 yr old Royler to bash on when theres 100's o MMA guys, and multiple champions that are all BJJ black belts. If you arent well versed on the ground, you will get killed in MMA no matter what style you have. If BJJ isnt the best on the ground, why does it dominate the ADCC? ANd by the way, judo throws come from jiu jitsu, its a branch that was developed to make it a "family" sport and much safer than grappling in BJJ. Many throws taught in BJJ,GJJ, come from JUDO however.
Gee everyone of these guys, out of the 100s that dominate the sport, are balck belts, except for Franklin, hes brown stil I think. The Gracie's havent helped these guys at all, youre right, why bother with BJJ at all in MMA or a street fight?
Rich Franklin
Murilo "Ninja" Rua
Renato "Babalu" Sobral
Marcio "Pe de Pano" Cruz
Stephan Bonnar
Murilo Bustamante
Mauricio 'Shogun' Rua
Wanderlei Silva
Diego Sanchez
BJ Penn
Renzo Gracie
Rogerio "Minotouro" Nogueira
Antonio Rodrigo "Minotoro" Nogueira
Ricardo Arona
Matt Serra
Nick Diaz
Crosley Gracie
Dean Lister
Vitor Belfort
Ivan Salaverry
Mario Sperry
Rodrigo Gracie

youre singing the same old song dude, its great in the ring, fine GJJ WAS great in the ring, not anymore. Helio himself said GJJ was useless in its present form for SD...search it the article is on this forum. As for the arts i studied as a kid in the 60's they were wrestling boxing and jjj/combat judo from 5 different sf instructors (all family) who grew up doing those same arts. no bs mcdojo in my 40 odd years of training sonny, sorry to disappoint you.

[BoarSpear]

Really Omoplata, I respect the gracies and their jiu jitsu, but your starting to sound like a broken record...

Also, of all the guys you listed.. how many of them were trained by an actual Gracie.. I think in this thread we established Boar's problem was with the gracies, and GJJ, not BJJ...

And saying BJJ dominates the ADCC, is not the same as saying GJJ, dominates the ADCC... they arent interchangeable because not everyone good at BJJ, is a gracie...

Bingo

[danfaggella]

I thought the Gracies themselves prefered to call it GJJ, but also refer to it as BJJ (Renzo does in his book, numerous times). I don't think you have to be a Gracie to practice GJJ, because GJJ is BJJ.

[LoneHusky]

people who work to improve themselves and ANY art, i respect...those who cripple an art by removing critical aspects then create a marketing campaign and matches with special rules to sell their brand of crap , i despise.

sometimes i rip MMA but its actually directed at the crap that gets pulled in the ring by so called GJJ experts that pisses me off...every art involved in mma except GJJ has reasonable to great self defense capability....GJJ isnt even effective in the ring anymore and is completly off the map of realistic SD, just ask Helio....i know some non gracie GJJ people who arent hung on the name and crosstrain, those guys are dangerous because they have judo skills and can get you on the ground without sending an invitation...

i dont dislike jj i am a jjj practicioner since the 60's...i dislike the crap that the gracies spew and people like oma lap up...that weakens the arts...the ground additions were awesome, however if you need the guy to lay down in your guard to use it, its useless...i also give tai chi and kf knuckleheads hell when i see them weakening the arts...

did you get into martial arts during the Kung Fu craze of the 1960's?

[EmptyneSs]

to me its all just jiu jitsu. to me there isnt any real seperation, wether its bjj, jjj, judo, or gjj to me its all just jiu jitsu. all the techniques originate from jiu jitsu, thats all it is. when u said gjj is useless boar, i was assuming u were reffering to all jiu jitsu as useless. i see now that your beef is with the gracies and not jiu jitsu, but what i dont understand is your logic because if u think gjj is useless, then u must feel the same way about all jiu jitsu since you yourself stated that gjj its nothing new, its just jiu jitsu. u may hate the gracies, but that doesnt mean the art of jiu jitsu is useless. when u say gjj is useless, u are saying that jiu jitsu and all the arts that are derived from it are useless because thats all gjj is, just jiu jitsu with updated training methods.

[OmaPlata]

[QUOTE=SamuraiGuy]Really Omoplata, I respect the gracies and their jiu jitsu, but your starting to sound like a broken record...

Also, of all the guys you listed.. how many of them were trained by an actual Gracie.. QUOTE]


BJJ is GJJ. Who trains in BJJ that isnt GJJ? http://www.bjj.org/ Please show me great fighters that arent on this lineage.
I would say marco Ruas would be one, and another is.............?????
Only a complete and total fucktard would bash GJJ. I guess since Carlson Gracie jr is Neslon Monteiro's masters, and Nelson taught me before, and gave my master his black belt, that I never learned from a Gracie. Guess then I dont know Gracie Jiu Jitsu, so I train in Gracie Jiu Jitsu, but its not from a Gracie himself, so its BJJ? LOL, I got it. Hmmmmmm, Ill stop by Nelson's school tommorrow and tell him, "hey Nelsino, you cant call this new school Gracie Barra because although you learned from a Gracie, nobody else training here is, so call it Brazilian Jiu Jitsu only"
Maybe you fucktards dont know, but the Gracies themselves dont let a McDojo open anywhere from anybody, somebody, depending on the lineage, like Rickson or Carlos Jr, come out to the new schools and authorize them to teach under the Gracie name. Which is also under the Brazilian Federation of Jiu Jitsu, taken over and run by Carlos jr. Not only that, the Gracies, most except Carlos sr., are very tight when handing out Black belts, thus no dojo's under the Gracie Barra or Ricksons, are going to be shitty places to train.
This stringent system of schools opening and obtaining belts keeps the "mcdojo's" system, started by chuck norris schools styles and kung fu in the 70s, from happening. The chuck norris style schools just advance students fast, the instructor sends that green or red belt out and he opens another school, and so on. This isnt so in GJJ. If you see Mcdojo's, it isnt a Gracie school. Not even Dean Lister, who learned from Ricksons BB Fabio, uses anything Gracie. Its a pretty tight nit community of BB and instructors, though there are many.
Gracie Barra schools have more MMA champions, past and present, then anybody.
But GJJ is now worthless in MMA, maybe Chuck norris flying kicks are the way to go, Im calling Silva tommorrow to tell him to give his black belt back, its nonsense.

[medic06]

I think someone held you a minute too long in a choke and now you have brain damage

[BoarSpear]

did you get into martial arts during the Kung Fu craze of the 1960's?

nope i was lucky enough to be born into a family that has been practicing martial arts since 1911 everyone in the family is taught formally from age 6...before that it is kids games and monkey see, monkey do. kids are encouraged to participate but not required to until your 6th birhtday.

[BoarSpear]

to me its all just jiu jitsu. to me there isnt any real seperation, wether its bjj, jjj, judo, or gjj to me its all just jiu jitsu. all the techniques originate from jiu jitsu, thats all it is. when u said gjj is useless boar, i was assuming u were reffering to all jiu jitsu as useless. i see now that your beef is with the gracies and not jiu jitsu, but what i dont understand is your logic because if u think gjj is useless, then u must feel the same way about all jiu jitsu since you yourself stated that gjj its nothing new, its just jiu jitsu. u may hate the gracies, but that doesnt mean the art of jiu jitsu is useless. when u say gjj is useless, u are saying that jiu jitsu and all the arts that are derived from it are useless because thats all gjj is, just jiu jitsu with updated training methods.

no GJJ is the overspecialization of the ground, at the expense of takedown and striking ability...other bjj people have overcome the original gracie screw up of neglecting these, the Gracies have not

[blitz]

Boar and Omaplata. Stop flaming each other its getting annoying. You are both repeating the same posts in different words. Boar says he's been practicing for 104817234 years and has a family full of martial artists and Omplata answers back saying BJJ dosen't suck and its the best art. Everytime they just include a new bit. Stop it -_-

[kuk sool won]

sorry about busting the Matbla thing but lets be honest, its a bit stupid posting an image off google, at least edit it and put it on yourself