Respect?

[SamuraiGuy]

Royce mainly trains in BJJ, and hes one of the best at BJJ in the world, .

URGHHH, PEOPLE ITS NOT 1993 ANYMORE!!!!

[okimura]

Because they dont bow there disrespectful, how bout after you beat the shit out of each other and you get the "good job for sticking it out" hug.

Just because your not bowing, and bowing, and thanking your sensei, and kissing the floor he walks on, doesnt mean it lacks etiquette.

Do I bow when I do Judo, I sure do.

Do I bow when I do other things, not a chance.

Could I do without bowing in Judo, sure could, do I care, nope.

I never said anything about kissing the floor my sensei walks on. I was talking about showing respect, not just to your instructor, but to your partners. If you don't respect them with some kind of gesture or verbal expression, a bow, a handshake, touching gloves, whatever, and you're just a bully, no one is going to want to practice with you. Well I can't speak for everyone, but that's not the kind of person I want to practice with.

The MMA guys that came to my old gym, some would use one of these gestures and some wouldn't. One guy in particular stands out, let's call him George. He and I were sparring. Now I don't even know why my instructor put us together, because George was bigger, stronger, taller, and much much more experienced. And this guy punished me. He really unloaded on me. There wasn't much I could do. My instructor kept shouting at him, "George, keep it light! Keep it light!" but he didn't. This is the lack of respect I'm talking about.

[Garland]

what city you live in?...this sounds familiar.

[SamuraiGuy]

I never said anything about kissing the floor my sensei walks on. I was talking about showing respect, not just to your instructor, but to your partners. If you don't respect them with some kind of gesture or verbal expression, a bow, a handshake, touching gloves, whatever, and you're just a bully, no one is going to want to practice with you. Well I can't speak for everyone, but that's not the kind of person I want to practice with.

The MMA guys that came to my old gym, some would use one of these gestures and some wouldn't. One guy in particular stands out, let's call him George. He and I were sparring. Now I don't even know why my instructor put us together, because George was bigger, stronger, taller, and much much more experienced. And this guy punished me. He really unloaded on me. There wasn't much I could do. My instructor kept shouting at him, "George, keep it light! Keep it light!" but he didn't. This is the lack of respect I'm talking about.

Right, so your problem isnt with the styles or even the school.. its with a dick (george) and a close minded instructor.

Didnt you think for a second, maybe I'm just in here with some dick. Obviously if your instructor is saying keep it light, than he's not a dick, just close minded to the other arts.

Now in all of my mma type stuff... we've all shown your "signs of respect"... touching gloves before striking, slapping hands before rolling, in my judo we would bow.

I think its just the people you met dude.

And also, maybe you should try to earn their respect and not just expect it?

[kwai chang pain]

Okimura,

Good teachers and schools can be hard to find. I've been there. Sounds like you've had a couple of bad experiences. I try to look at it this way, 99.9% of people in martial arts are cool. You've just had a dose of the minority recently. You might say experience is a double-edged sword. The more you have, the more people want to test themselves against you.

I'll also say that finding a place where you feel comfortable training is important. If that school isn't for you, keep looking.

[sparks110972]

train in a traditional japanese dojo, you either learn respect or get broken up.the majority of bjj cant show proper respect because they dont know what proper respect because they equate fear with respect, fear doesnt teach respect it only teaches resentment.

[Penance]

I never said anything about kissing the floor my sensei walks on. I was talking about showing respect, not just to your instructor, but to your partners. If you don't respect them with some kind of gesture or verbal expression, a bow, a handshake, touching gloves, whatever, and you're just a bully, no one is going to want to practice with you. Well I can't speak for everyone, but that's not the kind of person I want to practice with.

The MMA guys that came to my old gym, some would use one of these gestures and some wouldn't. One guy in particular stands out, let's call him George. He and I were sparring. Now I don't even know why my instructor put us together, because George was bigger, stronger, taller, and much much more experienced. And this guy punished me. He really unloaded on me. There wasn't much I could do. My instructor kept shouting at him, "George, keep it light! Keep it light!" but he didn't. This is the lack of respect I'm talking about.

The solution to this is: kick George squarely in the balls and proceed to knee on stomach as hard as you can. Then apologize over and over. Appear to be as sorry as you can. You didn't mean to do it on purpose, afterall, right? Explain to the teacher that you were trying to go light and just drill stuff but when George unloaded on you, you just ended up flailing and getting an unfortunate hit in. Oops!

[sapatiero]

train in a traditional japanese dojo, you either learn respect or get broken up.the majority of bjj cant show proper respect because they dont know what proper respect because they equate fear with respect, fear doesnt teach respect it only teaches resentment.

Woooh there cowboy! The majority of BJJ'ers don't know what proper respect is? I started in the traditional arts before doing BJJ, and have trained all over, and very seldom come across a BJJ'er who lacks respect. Whether it's in Brazil, Europe, or the US, most BJJers are friendly, respectful, and relaxed. Just because I stopped prostrating myself in front of my traditional sensei I didn't lose respect.

The only lack of respect I see here is in your sweeping put down. When I as a JJJ black belt got my arse handed to me on the ground by BJJ blue belts I didn't make statements like that. I took up BJJ.

[Snowman]

I don't want to make any generalizations but I have encountered several people like this who think that MMA (MT and BJJ or some variant) are the end all of martial arts. Theirs is the best. They have no respect for other disciplines. I've sparred with some of these guys in MT. I put my hands together and bow in the traditional Thai way, and they don't return the gesture. I've met a lot of these guys that have no discipline and no etiquette. What's the deal?

Well, I am all about not caring about tradition, so I purposely seek out gymes where the coach is not called sensei or sifu. I don't want to learn a bunch of Japanese names or learn to count to 20 in Korean so I don't go to schools that require that kind of traditional learning either. But I am respectful. I like to touch gloves before sparring or slap hands before rolling. But it someone gave me a traditional Thai bow before we sparred, I probably wouldn't return it, partially because I am not Thai, partially because I don't know how a proper Thai bow is done and partly because that is not what we do at the gym I train in. So as for the not bowing...ease up on some of that traditional eastern "showing of respect" like bowing before you setp on the mat and such. Hold out your hand like an american and touch gloves or slap hands. If the people at that gym leave you hanging and have an evil stare like they are just at the gym to spar so they can take out the frustrations of the day on you...then weather the storm that day and find another gym.

As far as instructors go...if the instructor is making statements that seem like put downs...don't train there. Yes it is a sign of disrespect, but it is also a sign of poor decision making, it is often a way for trainers who need more students to convince the student that they need to train there by hoping you are weak willed enough that you believe what you know is nothing and he alone can teach you what you need to know. So he is either a stupid disrespectful ass or he in an unethical con man desperate for business. I hope you didn't even consider training with him.

So ease up on eastern tradition, unless that is what you crave, if so go to some karate or tang soo do school, they are rife with tradition and it seems to benefit little kids. If you just want the regular respect that a decent person shows another by slapping hands before a round when a hand is extended and you ain't getting it, find some other people to train with. And I don't even have to tell you a thing about that instructor you encountered, you know he was disrespectful and sometimes that happens, the world is full of assholes...if you smell one, move on. And do be careful with that generalization you didn't want to make but kind of made anyway...that kind of thing can lead to some of the more negative replies you've been getting.

[Blue Wave Gym]

your story sound all too familiar

I've been caught between style vs style school vs school and instructor vs instructor drama before screw all that mess
remember it's all about YOU learning to fight/defend yourself in the first-1000th place nothing else, if you meet cool training partners/ instructors along the way great but bottom line it's your money and your ass there is not time for other people's silly asss little ego stroking games we all have to work on our own ego stuff as relates to ring combat/self-defense so who has time for additional b.s.

[okimura]

Well, I am all about not caring about tradition, so I purposely seek out gymes where the coach is not called sensei or sifu. I don't want to learn a bunch of Japanese names or learn to count to 20 in Korean so I don't go to schools that require that kind of traditional learning either. But I am respectful. I like to touch gloves before sparring or slap hands before rolling. But it someone gave me a traditional Thai bow before we sparred, I probably wouldn't return it, partially because I am not Thai, partially because I don't know how a proper Thai bow is done and partly because that is not what we do at the gym I train in. So as for the not bowing...ease up on some of that traditional eastern "showing of respect" like bowing before you setp on the mat and such. Hold out your hand like an american and touch gloves or slap hands. If the people at that gym leave you hanging and have an evil stare like they are just at the gym to spar so they can take out the frustrations of the day on you...then weather the storm that day and find another gym.

As far as instructors go...if the instructor is making statements that seem like put downs...don't train there. Yes it is a sign of disrespect, but it is also a sign of poor decision making, it is often a way for trainers who need more students to convince the student that they need to train there by hoping you are weak willed enough that you believe what you know is nothing and he alone can teach you what you need to know. So he is either a stupid disrespectful ass or he in an unethical con man desperate for business. I hope you didn't even consider training with him.

So ease up on eastern tradition, unless that is what you crave, if so go to some karate or tang soo do school, they are rife with tradition and it seems to benefit little kids. If you just want the regular respect that a decent person shows another by slapping hands before a round when a hand is extended and you ain't getting it, find some other people to train with. And I don't even have to tell you a thing about that instructor you encountered, you know he was disrespectful and sometimes that happens, the world is full of assholes...if you smell one, move on. And do be careful with that generalization you didn't want to make but kind of made anyway...that kind of thing can lead to some of the more negative replies you've been getting.

I'm not hell bent on getting my sparring partner to bow. Any show of respect/sportsmanship is good. When I say etiquette, I don't necessarily mean traditional bows and saying thank you in Japanese or whatever, I'm just talking about good manners. If a partner doesn't have that, well I'll probably look for another.

You're right about the instructor. I think the guy was probably just trying to be a businessman/sales person..