guard position

[13ang]

I have been doing some sambo lately, nothing realy official, just know a sambo guy through my tkd master and we have been geting together and training a little bit.

We do alot of training from the guard position obviously, and he describes it as sort of a best of the worst situation. He says you dont want to be on your back, but if you are guard is the best place to be. However I have noticed that alot of the brazilian guys will just immediatly try to drop you down into a guard. This kind of goes against what I have been learning, and even what I have seen from training myself. I mean they cant realy do much to you in that position, but neither can you, and as easy as it can be to pass the guard sometimes, it can backfire quickly as well if you dont have flawless execution.

So I wanna know what you guys think about guard position? I was watching a video by one of the Gracies(I forget, too many of em), and he said that people will mainly drop down into the guard position against stand up fighters and wrestlers with a good base, because they are not always used to this kind of fighting. Is this the basic thinking, or would some of you guys try and get the guard even against someone who knows what they are doing in that position?

[SamuraiGuy]

Grappling, I will always take the bottom of the gaurd over the top of the gaurd...

Fighting that adds strikes and is a whole new dimension, in which I'd probably take the top position.

"I mean they cant realy do much to you in that position, but neither can you,"

Are you saying theres not many options from the gaurd, or not many options to pass, either way there are tons.

When your in my gaurd your closer to losing a grappling match then you are when I'm mounted on top of you, submissions, sweeps, etc.. (although I realize sweeps would put me in mount). Submission wise the gaurd is far more dangerous for my opponent than the mount is. Although I suppose if you attempt a submission from mount and fail, you usually end up back in gaurd, but thats.. another story.

Anyway, look at all the top grappling competitions, (except specific sports, wrestling, judo), the majority of time spent on the ground is in some form of gaurd.

[blitz]

We do alot of training from the guard position obviously, and he describes it as sort of a best of the worst situation. He says you dont want to be on your back, but if you are guard is the best place to be. However I have noticed that alot of the brazilian guys will just immediatly try to drop you down into a guard. This kind of goes against what I have been learning, and even what I have seen from training myself. I mean they cant realy do much to you in that position, but neither can you, and as easy as it can be to pass the guard sometimes, it can backfire quickly as well if you dont have flawless execution.

Passing the guard is one of the hardest things to do in grappling, you should go against someone good at bjj and i'm sure you'd rethink that statement. And people only pull guard in like grappling matches.

[B78NY]

I read in this months newsletter "the gracie insider" Helio said that in a street fighting situation you want to be on top, first securing the mount position. THis is a quote from Helio from the october newsletter.

MINDSET TIP OF THE MONTH

"Offensively, the number one objective in a street fight is to get to the mount. The number one mistake people make when they get there is try to win in a hurry and in doing so they neglect their base and lose the position. Follow this checklist for mount success: 1. Achieve the mount 2. MAINTAIN the mount 3. Win the fight."

[Kenny Chance]

a lot of times if im rollin with someone that i KNOW i cant score a takedown against, ill immediately pull guard, and honestly I think I prefer being on the bottom to the top, im very light and tend to get tossed around and swept easily and find it easier to control the other person and set up subs/sweeps from bottom guard

[B78NY]

Concrete?

Kenny, I agree with you if you are in a competition and are on a mat. If you were in a street fighting situation would you still prefer to be on the bottom?

[Kenny Chance]

i prefer pulling knives over pulling guard in a streetfight, or a solid headbutt

[13ang]

"When your in my gaurd your closer to losing a grappling match then you are when I'm mounted on top of you, submissions, sweeps, etc.. (although I realize sweeps would put me in mount). Submission wise the gaurd is far more dangerous for my opponent than the mount is. Although I suppose if you attempt a submission from mount and fail, you usually end up back in gaurd, but thats.. another story."

You would rather have someone in a guard position than in a mount? This makes no sense to me at all. Honestly, if you have someone in your guard, what can you do besides either try to sweep them (and get mount), or go for a choke? If you are in mount you can go for the arm, chokes, and its fairly difficult for them to bump you off if you sinch up on their arms. I would take the mount over guard by far, any day.

[osopardo]

"Offensively, the number one objective in a street fight is to get to the mount. The number one mistake people make when they get there is try to win in a hurry ..." (My emphasis)

Is the man senile?!? The number one objective in a streetfight is to end it as quickly as possible. If you're unfortunate enough to "go to the ground" (whether you're in the mount or not) the number one objective ought to be to get back on your feet.

This UFC nonsense of taking somebody down and getting top position and taking your sweet time while leisurely wearing your opponent down and eventually achieving the mount only works on a mat with a referee on duty!

Try that crap on the street and you're guarateed to be interrupted by a third party. Pray it ain't your opponent's friend(s)!

[gaittec]

" Honestly, if you have someone in your guard, what can you do besides either try to sweep them (and get mount), or go for a choke?"

Armbar, Knee Bar, Arm Triangle, Triangle, GoGo Palata, Oma Palata, Kimura, Straight Armbar, Heel Hook, Wrist Lock, Double ArmBar, Neck Crank, I can go on.