Mixed Martial Arts, One of the oldest forms of fighting.

[Ardith]

Is a woman supposed to wear that all the time? Or just put it in when "she thinks she's going to be raped"? That's retarded.

So it's okay to let somebody violate and penetrate you so long as you can identify them later? **** you. If you walked in on somebody raping your mother, sister, daughter, girlfriend...what would you do? Would you walk into the other room and call the police, then watch the clock until they left...you probably fucking would, wouldn't you?

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I also don't care to expound.

[Garland]

Yeah, I agree that she should do whatever it takes to get away from it.

Every time someone mentions rape though, I always remember this product:

http://www.rapestop.net/

Is a woman supposed to wear that all the time? Or just put it in when "she thinks she's going to be raped"? That's retarded.

So it's okay to let somebody violate and penetrate you so long as you can identify them later? **** you. If you walked in on somebody raping your mother, sister, daughter, girlfriend...what would you do? Would you walk into the other room and call the police, then watch the clock until they left...you probably fucking would, wouldn't you?

[Garland]

This thread is a pile of garbage.

I can't believe there are martial artist's touting systems that they teach that are designed to cause serious harm, or potentially kill someone. Haven't we all learned lessons from such classic cases as Bernie Goetz?

I certainly do not think there is any merit to using this sort of force, unless you are a soldier in the military. And soldiers don't win fights by using hand-to-hand combat, so teaching people hand-to-hand combat is a moot point.

I think it is rather irresponsible to teach people techniques that can cripple, paralyze, or kill others and then go with that mentality of brutality out on the street. Once you begin teaching that you are no longer teaching "self-defense." You're not training murderers and assassins. And we're obviously not fighting a war against our own people.

Morality and better discretion obviously aren't classes being taught in these schools.

Why not instead of wasting our time with learning hand-to-hand combat just give everybody knives and guns and teach them how to kill the average man before he has a chance to scream?

Face it, we don't live in an age of biker barbarians where only the strongest survive and you have to kill every single opponent to continue to survive.

You're a pile of untermensch garbage.

Touting martial arts that maim and kill? What don't you understand about the word "martial"? Are you that much of a jackass? These arts, all of them, at one point were designed with the intent to maim and kill people...in self defense or not. The point you made about soldiers IS a moot point...why not go against people that own guns too? Should people not be able to own a pencil or a potato peeler because they could conceivably stab the shit out of somebody in a fit of rage?

The mentality of brutality? Martial artist does not equivicate "antisocial personality disorder". People who go out and start fights or intend to kill people already have a priori problems, martial arts training does not make people murderers or assault-prone.

Morality and better disgression? Morality is subjective...and disgression is situational. For the record...if people don't understand the consquences of engaging in an illegal use of physical force, then they should be considered mentally fucking handicapped.

Give anyone a knife and they can kill. You don't need to be trained to stab somebody, it's pretty straightforward, you jackoff.

No, but we do live in a world where there are muggings, home invasions, rapes, assaults, stabbings, murders, thefts, sexual assaults, etc. You've obviously never been or known a victim of a crime. Not everyone lives in a bubble.

[Tom Yum]

I think it is rather irresponsible to teach people techniques that can cripple, paralyze, or kill others and then go with that mentality of brutality out on the street. Once you begin teaching that you are no longer teaching "self-defense." You're not training murderers and assassins. And we're obviously not fighting a war against our own people..

What if the guy attacking you has the intent of crippling or killing you for random or pre-mediatated reasons?

Granted these things don't happen often, but all it takes is one to shake you up.

Morality and better discretion obviously aren't classes being taught in these schools...

I think they are to some extent.

Why not instead of wasting our time with learning hand-to-hand combat just give everybody knives and guns and teach them how to kill the average man before he has a chance to scream?...

Because if you're a law-abiding citizen you cannot carry a pistol or knife everywhere. It is unlawful to carry these weapons in certain places.

Face it, we don't live in an age of biker barbarians where only the strongest survive and you have to kill every single opponent to continue to survive.

It'd make a damn good movie though...

True. I'd rather have it and not need it then the reverse.

[Ardith]

Yeah, I agree that she should do whatever it takes to get away from it.

Every time someone mentions rape though, I always remember this product:

http://www.rapestop.net/

[gabbah]

Well, I'm not dismissing the fact that there are lunatics out there, I just don't think loonies are going to be the average encounter.

Hehe and we all agree with you man.
But once in a while even that which is not average might occur... and then you will need more drastic methods to defend yourself, right?
For instance, a rape will often ruin the life of a woman for many many years. Getting raped is not the average for her daily life, but once it occurs she SHOULD do ANYTHING to get away, including crushing the attackers eyes and nut balls, don't you agree?

[Ardith]

Well, I'm not dismissing the fact that there are lunatics out there, I just don't think loonies are going to be the average encounter.

[jubaji]

I understand what you mean Gabbah.

Better to know the "lethal" techniques and not need them than to not know them and need them.....

But Ardith is certainly correct when saying we don't live in fuedal times, most fights we get into (if at all) will not be life and death and we will most likely be up against unskilled/untrained opponents......they are still dangerous though.

Both are correct, of course. Saying that you'll never need to use a weapon might leave you shit out of luck when it turns out that you do. On the other hand, nutjobs who profess to never so much as taking a crap without 12 knives, 2 guns, and a bazooka nearby (one headcase around here has said more than once that he won't take a shower without a gun) is paranoid lunacy and more often than not is just excuse-making for people who won't or can't train the physical skills needed for practical but not apocalyptic confrontations.

[WildWest.]

I understand what you mean Gabbah.

Better to know the "lethal" techniques and not need them than to not know them and need them.....

But Ardith is certainly correct when saying we don't live in fuedal times, most fights we get into (if at all) will not be life and death and we will most likely be up against unskilled/untrained opponents......they are still dangerous though.

[gabbah]

Ardith, you make good points, but I think you also need to consider the different scenarios different techniques are intended for. There are SELF DEFENSE situations, where your life might be at stake. This is probably muggins or VERY ill intended attacks of pride...
And then there are - which is MUCH more common - "ordinary fights", where the fight happens because you talked to someones girlfriend too much, or a guy who's simply looking to vent some aggression when he's drunk.

Those situations are clearly different. In the ordinary fight you should not use crippling techniques nor such intent. When you're the selected *victim* of a (or several) criminal(s) then you have to do everything to survive.

But that just is what I personally think, and I'm only interested in SD... so this is by no means an experts view or anything, I could be very wrong.

But what do you think about those two scenarios and what level of contra violence is accepted?

[JustaFighter]

i understand what you are saying ardith. i am a 23 year old kid who works at an electronics store, not a warrior or a soldier. i am not going to be fighting my way out of life and death situations at every turn. i am going to need to know how to restrain/stop people properly without severely injuring them probably more than i need to know how to kill/main them..

Why not train for both scenarios? Restraining people and survive a violent situation. Yeah learning how to cripple, maim, or kill someone is socially unsettling, however in the context of unavoidable violence I want to at least be on an even playing field with my attacker(s) so that I have a chance to survive the situation.

But that's just my moral outlook on it. If I need to simply control my brother in-law who had a few to many or I just so happen to look at a crazy on the street the wrong way and he lunges at me. I wouldn't mind being able to handle the situations with a correctly proportioned response.

[DickHardman]

i understand what you are saying ardith. i am a 23 year old kid who works at an electronics store, not a warrior or a soldier. i am not going to be fighting my way out of life and death situations at every turn. i am going to need to know how to restrain/stop people properly without severely injuring them probably more than i need to know how to kill/main them..

[Ardith]

I'm commenting versus arguments that suggest that you need to be brutal and study techniques that can kill your opponent. And that that is the only way that you are going to survive in a street encounter.

That's a ridiculous argument. I've witnessed quite a few street encounters personally and the level of brutality generally does not match what you are actually taught in classes.

Sure, there's going to be that guy that's got all of his screws loose and is going to try to kill you, but we need to be cognizant of the consequences of utilizing a technique that is even going to cripple a person, let alone kill them.

It's ridiculous to even think about using such things to "defend" yourself.

The average person isn't going to have much trouble defending themselves if their classes actually focus on utilizing tactics and actually testing them out to see if they work. The average attacker is untrained, and it shows. We don't have to be lethal to defend ourselves. This isn't feudal Japan, China, or Mongolia. Alexander isn't driving his cavalry and phalanx across Europe and the middle east.

I'm pretty sure that the only time you really need to use deadly force is if someone walks up to you with a look of extreme hatred in their eyes and screams out "derka derka muhammed jihad!"

Outside of that...

[gabbah]

Ardith, what is your suggestion to a self defense system that can be used by average folks, to survive a situation with mulitple attackers, where it's hard to simply run from them, or they are faster than you?
I think most people go to SD classes to learn to DEFEND themselves. The class itself will very unlikely MAKE them into killing machines or murderers imho, even if they are they are thaught how to attack eyes, throat and groin, as well as how to defend against knives and such. People still keep their senses. What do you think?

[Ardith]

This thread is a pile of garbage.

I can't believe there are martial artist's touting systems that they teach that are designed to cause serious harm, or potentially kill someone. Haven't we all learned lessons from such classic cases as Bernie Goetz?

I certainly do not think there is any merit to using this sort of force, unless you are a soldier in the military. And soldiers don't win fights by using hand-to-hand combat, so teaching people hand-to-hand combat is a moot point.

I think it is rather irresponsible to teach people techniques that can cripple, paralyze, or kill others and then go with that mentality of brutality out on the street. Once you begin teaching that you are no longer teaching "self-defense." You're not training murderers and assassins. And we're obviously not fighting a war against our own people.

Morality and better discretion obviously aren't classes being taught in these schools.

Why not instead of wasting our time with learning hand-to-hand combat just give everybody knives and guns and teach them how to kill the average man before he has a chance to scream?

Face it, we don't live in an age of biker barbarians where only the strongest survive and you have to kill every single opponent to continue to survive.