My new mma rankings

[J-Luck]

And yea, what is up with that string of underdog victories... very odd. I mean, none of the peopl who won were really given their fair credit(ESPECIALLY COUTURE), but still, I mean they were all a long shot even so.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Ummm, what planet are you from again? Lol... Have you ever watched the UFC before? It might help to watch it before commenting...

I was just implying that Koscheck would make hughes his bitch if they clinched or one of them shot in on the other.

[bigred389]

Ummm I didnt say it was some grand display, but unlike what you THINK, Hughes was expected to get beaten badly in the standup, regardless of how much standup there was, it didn't happen. Lyttle was the underdog, but was given the striking advantage, in some cases people were saying heavily.

Wrong. Penn was not an "ass whooping". In fact I would use that fight to point out his improvements. Is Hughes ever going to outstrike Penn... probably not... did he do significantly better striking than people though... yes, he did. GSP is just a fuckin monster freak, I don't think many people will ever have the advantage striking with him.
Hughes never intended on knocking him out. He openly claimed that as his game plan, but lets face it, fighters claim one gameplan and follow another quite often. He was supposedly going to "fear" taking down Gracie... ummmm... yea, he looked real scared.

What? When people said they expected Lytle to get the better of the standup, that was conditional on Hughes actually standing with him.

Go watch the fight again, and then tell me if you can call it a standup display.

Hughes took 10-15 seconds at the beginning of each round to set up his shot. After that, the rest of the round was spent on the ground.

It says absolutely nothing about Hughes's standup abilities one way or another.

And the Penn fight WAS an asswhupping. Penn landed a lot more, more consecutively, and for more damaging shots. Not as bad as the GSP, but still an asswhupping. The first 2 rounds made Hughes look real bad.

[bigred389]

And by popular demand(ie one person):

My revised LW rankings:

1)BJ Penn
2)Sherk
3)Sakurai
4)Gomi
5)Gilbert Melendez
6)Kawajiri
7)Franca
8)Stevenson
9)Pulver
10)Fisher

This is based on NSAC rules, but until they sort out who's gonna go where, I think we can count in both 155 and 160 guys(mainly affects Sakurai). Also based on a mix of recent performance, credentials, and short term potential(improvement between fights).

[J-Luck]

What? When people said they expected Lytle to get the better of the standup, that was conditional on Hughes actually standing with him.

Go watch the fight again, and then tell me if you can call it a standup display.

Hughes took 10-15 seconds at the beginning of each round to set up his shot. After that, the rest of the round was spent on the ground.

It says absolutely nothing about Hughes's standup abilities one way or another.

And the Penn fight WAS an asswhupping. Penn landed a lot more, more consecutively, and for more damaging shots. Not as bad as the GSP, but still an asswhupping. The first 2 rounds made Hughes look real bad.

look, the Penn fight was not an asswuping. I know alot of fighters, in fact, I am one. We all agree it wasnt an asswuping, EVEN THE HUGHES HATERS. Untill you become a fighter and learn even elementary striking, then you can tell me it was an asswuping. It simply wasn't regardless of what you !THINK!

[J-Luck]

I was just implying that Koscheck would make hughes his bitch if they clinched or one of them shot in on the other.

Naaa he def wouldn't in the clinch... maybe if they shot on each other, in fact probably in that case, but not in the clinch lol. Not by a long shot.

[bigred389]

look, the Penn fight was not an asswuping. I know alot of fighters, in fact, I am one. We all agree it wasnt an asswuping, EVEN THE HUGHES HATERS. Untill you become a fighter and learn even elementary striking, then you can tell me it was an asswuping. It simply wasn't regardless of what you !THINK!

And you know what I do how?

[bigred389]

And way to avoid your criteria of evaluating Hughes standup with the Lytle fight.

Yeah...I don't care whether or not you call yourself a "fighter"...if you think that fight was at all a way to judge a standup contest, you need to re-evaluate your training.

[J-Luck]

And way to avoid your criteria of evaluating Hughes standup with the Lytle fight.

Yeah...I don't care whether or not you call yourself a "fighter"...if you think that fight was at all a way to judge a standup contest, you need to re-evaluate your training.

Ummm first off, I never duck questions... my record shows that... so I don't know where you're coming from? I already stated my opinion. It is what it is. Disagree or agree with it. Would you like me to click back a page or two to show you what it is? lol.

You don't have to care. I AM ONE. You are probably not(you didn't debate the point). I have boxed for 2 years and kickboxed for 3(we were talking strictly striking so I'm not going to go into my grappling background). My eventual goal is to become a champion MMA fighter. I take this very seriously. I didnt say he dominated Penn, he did far from that. But he improved from previous fights. Of course it didn't appear that way to the untrained fighter because he was on the losing side of the striking, but a trained fighter can see where his improvements were, even in the face of a far superior fighter.

I kickbox with a 20 year Kenpo fighter, who also fights mma and kickboxing and I box and kickbox at Manfredos Gym, (Manfredo Sr was a world champ kickboxer for years, and Manfredo jr was on the contender and recently fought for the world title in boxing). I'm not sure if that's good enough for you lol... maybe you have significantly better training?

[bigred389]

Good for you. Too bad none of that tells me that you're a fighter.

But for the record, I think a relatively intelligent and observant person would realize that other members of a martial arts forum probably have had training...in fact, they might even have more training. Hmm...

And I love how you have no problem flying into topics to shoot down other people's opinions but get so touchy when your own are questioned(and not in any particularly disrespectful manner, I might add).

[JkD187]

Sorry just saw this thread.B.J Penn should not be ranked at LW his last LW fight was at ufc 41 vs Caol Uno....i know hes facing Jens but even then he shouldn't be ranked untill a few fights after.

1.Hayato "Mach" Sakurai
2.Gilbert Melendez
3.Tatsuya "The Crusher" Kawajiri
4.Shinya "Tobikan Judan" Aoki
5.Takanori "Fireball Kid" Gomi
6.Vitor "Shaolin" Riberio
7.Joachim "Hellboy" Hansen
8.Mitsuhiro Ishida
9.Nick Diaz
10.Sean "The Musscle Shark" Sherk

[J-Luck]

Good for you. Too bad none of that tells me that you're a fighter.

But for the record, I think a relatively intelligent and observant person would realize that other members of a martial arts forum probably have had training...in fact, they might even have more training. Hmm...

And I love how you have no problem flying into topics to shoot down other people's opinions but get so touchy when your own are questioned(and not in any particularly disrespectful manner, I might add).

First off, I am far more than relatively intelligent and observent, but I'm not going to be arrogant, so that's as far as I'll go with that. I posted my qualifications as a striker, so how does that NOT tell you I'm a fighter? I'm seriously curious about this lol. What do you think I do when I train lol?? Do you think I just sit there, tap the bag a lil, complain that my feet hurt, then come here and post on this site? Come on now. I also train jiu-jitsu and am a wrestler, and have dabbled in some Judo. I used to fight every day on the streets before that? I wonder if that makes me a fighter? (this is not meant to be disrespectful, I'm sincerely wondering what would make me a fighter if not that).

I never suggested people here didn't have that kind of training. I'm positive people here do. In fact, maybe a majority. My point was merely that my striking training, is TOP NOTCH. Not many gyms have even DECENT pros, much less a world title contender in pro boxing, and a world champ kickboxer. I would say that's at the very, very least a higher than average training camp.

Look, I don't mean to be disrespectful, I guess that's just the way it comes out? And I truly am not touchy. I don't particularly care enough to be touchy. I just have fun debating(though, again, it might not come across that way). Every one is entitiled to critique anyone elses points, supposed facts, and opinions. I just stated that you could look back for my opinion. You called me out, citing cowardace for a lack of response on my part, and I corrected you. Is that touchy or disrespectful? If it is, than I am whole heartedly sorry for that.

Anywayssssssss... Where does your striking training take place? Or are you a grappler primarily?

[bigred389]

First off, I am far more than relatively intelligent and observent, but I'm not going to be arrogant, so that's as far as I'll go with that. I posted my qualifications as a striker, so how does that NOT tell you I'm a fighter? I'm seriously curious about this lol. What do you think I do when I train lol?? Do you think I just sit there, tap the bag a lil, complain that my feet hurt, then come here and post on this site? Come on now. I also train jiu-jitsu and am a wrestler, and have dabbled in some Judo. I used to fight every day on the streets before that? I wonder if that makes me a fighter? (this is not meant to be disrespectful, I'm sincerely wondering what would make me a fighter if not that).

Well...for one, I've never met a fighter that qualified himself as a fighter by how long he trained. Length of training alone doesn't make you a "fighter"...having a fight record does.
I figure you'd say you at least had an amateur or pro record of...???

And street fights don't count, for what should be obvious reasons.

I never suggested people here didn't have that kind of training. I'm positive people here do. In fact, maybe a majority. My point was merely that my striking training, is TOP NOTCH. Not many gyms have even DECENT pros, much less a world title contender in pro boxing, and a world champ kickboxer. I would say that's at the very, very least a higher than average training camp.

http://5pointsfitness.com/muay_thai_instructors.php

Sorry, are these guys just "average"? I really try not to get hung up on that kind of stuff anyway, as long as they're good trainers.

Look, I don't mean to be disrespectful, I guess that's just the way it comes out? And I truly am not touchy. I don't particularly care enough to be touchy. I just have fun debating(though, again, it might not come across that way). Every one is entitiled to critique anyone elses points, supposed facts, and opinions. I just stated that you could look back for my opinion. You called me out, citing cowardace for a lack of response on my part, and I corrected you. Is that touchy or disrespectful? If it is, than I am whole heartedly sorry for that.

Well you're not exactly "debating" when you simply say "look back for my opinion" to a rebuttal. If I still needed to look back, i wouldn't have bothered posting a rebuttal.

Which again leads to the question...how the hell do you judge a guy's standup when:
A)He throws one punch in 15 minutes.
B)Shoots in under 15 seconds of each round.
C)Spends less than a minute out of a 15 minute fight on his feet.
D)Simply backpedals out of range of every striking attempt from his opponent.

You still haven't answered that very specific question.

Maybe your worldclass training made you an phenomenal judge of standup, but I don't consider that enough to judge a guy's ability to stand and bang...since he decided not to let it happen.

Obviously good gameplan for Hughes since Lytle couldn't do anything to him, but says zilch about his standup abilities.

Anywayssssssss... Where does your striking training take place? Or are you a grappler primarily?

No, I'm a striker primarily.