army rangers train in jiu jitsu

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

to a point. again, it has more to do with what they do for a living.

consider this:

we are a small team outfit. secrecy a must. weapons and gear are heavy but we need this stuff. ideally, we should know how to operate with this stuff.

we tend to run across lookouts and guard quite a bit, so sentry neutralization is a premium. however, this is a science in and of itself. if it escalates into a full blown fight... we are boned.

sometimes we get the hostile extraction. you might call it "prisoner to go". we need to exfiltrate someone to a designated point for one reason or another. a team like ours handling a prisoner or two... or six... is a lot different than a fight. we need all the practice we can get.

this isn't everything we do, but it is all mission specific stuff.

granted, we don't want to get smacked around by anyone we face, but we usually are equiped for the job at hand. we should know how to use it.

thanks.

[darrianation]

Just to add some parallels a good friend of mine an Army Ranger who fought in the sand box and a certified Army combatives instructor and a certified instructor of BJJ through the Gracie’s (BTW) told me the only time he would consider going to the ground in a street fight (or military HTH situation for that matter) was if he was “Fighting on top of a truck and they were about to go under an overpass”.

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

that is essentially it.

thanks.

[DickHardman]

the point of bjj isnt going to the ground though, at least not inmop.
its actually quite the opposite. the point of training in bjj for me is to increase my chances of avoiding the ground and escaping from it should i find myself there. one of the best things about bjj is you learn to get back up to your feet fast from all those disadvantageous positions. when you spend all that time on the ground, you also get real good at getting up from it

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

a good point.

thanks.

[Tant01]

Do you know who you're talking to?

hello,

a good point.

thanks.

Hello...

If you learn to use the quote function it might help.

Thanks...

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

tant01, you took this up in pm. again,

was this necessary?

you have the earmarks of someone who is planning on making this a habit.

do not.

new to the forum? yes. new in general? no. every party has a self appointed bouncer and we have found the bouncer here, neh?

if on any given day, the worst thing to happen to you is "hello" and "thank you"... you have had pretty good day.

instead, spend some of that energy "correcting" those that insist on flaming for it's own sake. we could all do with less of that. but don't bother correcting something that isn't hurting anyone.

got it sport?

thanks.

[Tant01]

hello,

...got it sport?

thanks.

Redundant and huffy, eh?

Just trying to help. No need for the posturing.

[darrianation]

the point of bjj isnt going to the ground though, at least not inmop.
its actually quite the opposite. the point of training in bjj for me is to increase my chances of avoiding the ground and escaping from it should i find myself there. one of the best things about bjj is you learn to get back up to your feet fast from all those disadvantageous positions. when you spend all that time on the ground, you also get real good at getting up from it

I have long expounded on training in some form of grappling art for this very reason. But the whole of your training for protection (self-protection) should not be solely based on the grapple just the basics and robust stuff.

[sapatiero]

Hello!

Agreed. GJJ is a useful addition to a soldiers arsenal, but it's always gonna be a last resort. There's so many options that should be tried before getting into grappling (whether standing or on the ground). IMO it's just more practical than some of the other martial arts (and that includes sportive bjj).

Thanks!

[lorenzodamarith]

Hello!

Agreed. GJJ is a useful addition to a soldiers arsenal, but it's always gonna be a last resort. There's so many options that should be tried before getting into grappling (whether standing or on the ground). IMO it's just more practical than some of the other martial arts (and that includes sportive bjj).

Thanks!

hello,

agreed! soldiers and marines should have access to good training (many just go offbase on thier own and learn grappling. it is good for anyone to know. but as far as "doctrine" (the way of things, in militaryspeak) the combatives instructors should probably spend thier efforts teaching that which is more likely to be used in a combat situation (as experienced by soldiers and marines).

there are systems that exist expressly for situations such as those faced by military personel (such as sayoc tactical, amok, pekititirsia tactical, fcs tactical). systems such as these would be more appropriate.

a couple years ago, ran across something amusing. the us army wanted to hire mikevanarsdale (olympic team, ufc) to be special forces combatives instructor. he wanted davecamarillo to assist him.

now many of you here are likely familiar with mikevanarsdale and with military situations. anyone think he was qualified? the point is this: the military continually grasps at straws (so to speak) when generating combatives training programs, instead of utilizing what they already know and really training it. even when they have good programs, it is a matter of familiarization and then... back to your unit. most units don't make time for extended training.

it is unfortunate, but until the department of defense makes a few changes in OVERALL training method, things are not likely to get any better.

bear in mind, the military itself has some unique challenges when it comes to training. it is an enormous organization, so getting everyone trained is a monumental undertaking. also, each unit has a huge number of skills and drills at which it must become proficient. combatives usually don't take priority on the calander.

thanks.

[DickHardman]

I have long expounded on training in some form of grappling art for this very reason. But the whole of your training for protection (self-protection) should not be solely based on the grapple just the basics and robust stuff.

jiu jitsu is vast in the techniques and strategies it employes. you can get very creative with jiu jitsu and make many modifications to it while still keeping it effective. its really up to the practitioner to understand how to use. or better yet, its up to the practitioner to decide what they want to do with their jiu jitsu skills.

[DickHardman]

Hello!

Agreed. GJJ is a useful addition to a soldiers arsenal, but it's always gonna be a last resort. There's so many options that should be tried before getting into grappling (whether standing or on the ground). IMO it's just more practical than some of the other martial arts (and that includes sportive bjj).

Thanks!

yes bjj is to be used defensively in real life, not offensively like you see in mma. the strength of bjj is in its many escapes. a lot of times you may not be able to avoid grappling. someone could grab you from behind and put you in a headlock from out of nowhere.


bjj and judo blackbelt david camarillo told me once that the best self defense technique in bjj is posting on one hand and getting to your feet as fast as possible.


we havent even gotten to the attacks in bjj. bjj has TONS of attacks. the problem is it doesnt give you a delivery system for them other than when you are in actual grappling range. this is were other martial arts training comes in handy. however, the attacks in bjj are life altering if performed to completion.

[DickHardman]

a couple years ago, ran across something amusing. the us army wanted to hire mikevanarsdale (olympic team, ufc) to be special forces combatives instructor. he wanted davecamarillo to assist him.

now many of you here are likely familiar with mikevanarsdale and with military situations. anyone think he was qualified? the point is this: the military continually grasps at straws (so to speak) when generating combatives training programs, instead of utilizing what they already know and really training it. even when they have good programs, it is a matter of familiarization and then... back to your unit. most units don't make time for extended training.

mike vanarsdale and david camarillo are both accomplished, high level grapplers. the grappling skills they would have taught those soldiers would have been worth it inmop. these are guys that people all over the world seek out and pay money to train with.

the fact is, no art is the best or end all be all. and as we all know soldiers have many other weapons and usually will not use hand to hand combat so learning some basic grappling skills is probably just fine for them.

[bigred389]

The training may not be ideal, but it seems to "work." Troops in Iraq have reported great success when forced to go hand to hand.