Off Topic: 'Work & Life'

[kiddbjj]

Hey all,

I wasn't sure where to post this but I needed to vent so I was hoping to get some opinions from you guys. It's off topic but I don't really have anyone else to discuss this with and since we all do BJJ or combat sports I figured that this would be a place to find some like minded ppl.

My issue is with work and the role it plays in my/our lives. We all have to work, its a natural thing to have to provide for yourself but I have a real problem with the dominant culture of work that seems to be so strongly engrained in Western society.

Who decided that we would all work 5 days on and 2 days off, or as is the
case more and more these days, 6 on and 1 off?

Who decided that a working day was at least 8 hours long? and these days in many rich countries (despite our wealth) this figure is pushing up to 10 or more hours a day? Why?

If I can earn enough money to support the life that I want for myself in 4 (or even 3 days) of work why should I be obliged to work 5 or 6 days just because that is the prevailing 'normal' way to do things.

At this point your either agreeing with me or thinking I'm one of those lay-about welfare losers. I can assure you I'm not.

I've never received any form of govt or other welfare (aside from my parents raising me of course) and come from a working class family who run a small restaurant business. My parents have both worked over 50, often 60 hours a week regularly in their business for the past 25 years. They are hard working people, typical of their generation, who respect commitement, honesty and loyalty. My father had a heart attack when he was thirty-five which the doctor described as resulting from a combination of overwork, stress and poor nutrition. It required triple-bypass open heart surgery to fix and he was warned that he needed to 'slow down'. Within a year he was back to where he started albeit with an improved diet.

My parents have been on this treadmill for as long as I can remember and have unknowingly shaped my motivation to never end up like them - always tired, rundown, overworked, and effectively stuck in their middle class pursuit of a comfortable retirement. In the mean time my brother and I rarely spent time with my dad since he left home before dawn and returned home after we had been sent to bed. The nett result is that neither I or my brother have a very 'open' relationship with our father.

So I wanted to see what your opinions were about work and how it fits into your life. A lot of people throw around cliches like: 'Work to live, don't live to work' and 'You only live once' but how many people really do this? People seem so consumed by their jobs that they neglect many other aspects of their lives, like their health, nutrition, family etc. I just don't get it.

The problem is that despite my objections I seem to be following in my families footsteps. When I work I do so to the best of my abilities and people notice. I can see myself throwing everything I have into my career and becoming another salary drone if I just continue following the prevailing expectations of bosses/supervisors in the workforce.

How do you respond to someone teling you your an 'asset to the organisation' or a 'valuable worker', then the inevitable avalanche of extra work and responsibilites that ususally follow and require more of your time and energy. I understand that many people would feel great about this and I salute them. Some people are really driven to climb the ladder and take on new responsibilites with relish. BUT i find the idea of being called a 'worker' both insulting & complimentary, basically labouring so that those above can receive a greater share of the wealth that's going around.

I mean let's get real about it. Unless you own the business either outright or as a share holder you are probably a 'worker' like the rest of us. We receive our income through exchanging our labour for cash. But the owner sets the terms. When we work, how long, how much we get paid. We are essentially no different to the peasants of the past working the land just to give the majority of grain to the king. Work conditions may have improved, but only so much as to increase our productivity and reduce rebellion.

I'm no communist or anything and I don't see any viable alternative to capitalism on the horizon but surely I'm not the only one who gets the shits with modern materialist culture and the rat race. Where are we racing to? Do we really need all the crap in the stores? How did things get so complicated and unhuman? That's why I like BJJ. Your opponent, your gi and the floor. That's it. No fancy equipment or gear. Basic and straightforward yet infinitiely challenging and rewarding.

So that's basically it. I don't feel as though I've communicated what I'm thinking as well as I could have and worry that I'm still coming off as a lazy turd. So don't get me wrong, I like working, I do. But on my terms.

i thought I would grow out of these opinions and settle into the 'normal' way of doing things (just like my folks want me to) but I'm 28 years old now, married, with a mortgage, and a good job and still want to live my life with the freedom and honesty that I feel is completely at odds with 'the way of the world'. Does anyone else long for a little 'simplicity'? Let me know if I'm full of shit or not. Tell me some of your experiences, especially the ppl that have been in the rat race for awhile. Is it worth it? Are you really living the life you expected you would?

Thanks for listening

[jubaji]

You are a lazy bastard with the mentality of a self-absorbed, listless child. STFU.

[kiddbjj]

thanks for the reply.

Can you give a little more explanation for your opinions?

[jubaji]

What exactly is not clear to you?

[kiddbjj]

c'mon man, I simply want you to explain your opinion.

You don't have to agree with my opinion but at least I justify why I said what I did.

Why do you disagree with me? Be specific.

I'm not lazy, I provide for myself, so that's that part of your argument out.

Yeah I probably am being self-indulgent but this is a forum for opinions.

I'm not asking anyone to support me so I'm no threat or drain on anyone.
I just want to be able to do more of the things I like and less of the things I'm roped into doing. I'm sure you'd feel the same.

Explain yourself dude. I want to hear what you have to say.

[jubaji]

Why are you a lazy bastard?! You come here bitching and moaning about wanting to work less, you disregard the honorable actions of a father who left home early every morning to put bread in your ungrateful mouth, you approach work as some kind of punishment instead of one of the most important and defining aspects of a man's life, and you wonder why you are considered a lazy bastard? What the hell kind of hedonistic, self-centered, useless waste of oxygen are you?

[Garland]

...I wait tables as much as I can while I'm going to school full time trying to get a B.S. in clinical psych. I'm working enough to pay for whatever superfilous expenses I have while living under my parents' roof, which is extremely convenient, and with our fiscal situation, the only plausible way I'd even be considering higher education.

I go to work, deal with asshole customers, and sometimes feel like beating the shit out of co-workers, management, or customers.

But at the end of the night, I have a smoke, me and my co-workers all pitch in on a thirty pack, and there is nothing in my life I'd be happier doing. At 7:30, I'll want to murder everyone...at 10:30, they're family, and I love them. I work with the coolest people on the face of the fucking planet. The pay varies...but no matter what, it's always interesting, and at the end of the night, I have amazing fucking food, a nice frosty beverage, a smooth smoke, and the fellowship of some amazing people.

I could be pulling down much more in an office job behind a cubical maybe (in the winter months, I may make more as a server...ha ha) but I take pride in what I do, and I couldn't be happier with what I do. Even when I'm bitching, it's life, and it's a damn good one.

Goddamn, I love my co-workers.
I have my best friend Ben working with me, the hostess is super chill, the owner is a goofy bastard that keeps everyone in stitches, the chefs are top notch and can hang with the rest of us when it comes to busting balls, the dishwashers are kickass and fun to joke with, and we have a new server that has an obsessive work ethic, an excellent sense of humor, and is an ex-Cambridge (england) university student who reads Camus when I read De Sade and Nietzche when we work slow lunches together.

I'm living a dream.

[DickHardman]

even though work can suck, you should be happy that at least you are employed. think about how many people around the world who are unemployed. there are people who risk life and limb and travel long distances just to get a job. there are also those who can work, but choose to make money by scamming others and stealing. any kind of honest work is admirable in my opinion.

[kiddbjj]

thanks

hey again

listen guys first I'd like to thank you for your replies. I was able to take something from all of them.

I'd also like to say that yesterday when I wrote that I was pretty much at the end of my tether and needed a place to vent. The nett result seems to be that I've come across as a ingrateful idiot. Credit to Jubaji for shooting me down when I needed it!

But still, let me clarify a few things. I have the utmost respect for my parents, especially my father, for working so hard. I do believe however that my parents are workaholics who have put way more into their jobs than was necessary to simply 'put food on the table'. This is something they have recently admitted themselves, both of them now over 60 yrs old and still pushing out 50-60 hour weeks in the restaurant. They have nice cars, a beautiful house, but neither the energy or time to enjoy it.

As for Mike's comment I completely agree. Now more than ever we have the freedom and opportunity to be far more creative with how we work and earn a living. My uncle is also a yard saler like the folks you described, he sells his wares at the local flea market every Sunday morning and earns enough to live modestly for the rest of the week whilst he sources out new stuff to sell.
I don't know what its like in America but here in Australia people that do that kind of work or don't work a standard 40 hour are often thought of as not pulling their weight or not doing a real job. The description you gave of your new job sounds fantastic, and I wish you well, but here many ppl would think (and I don't agree with them) that your on easy street and many would be jealous. In Australia, we seem to have a real stigma against people that stray from the normal way of doing things. I guess America is a lot more progressive in that respect. We even have a saying for it - 'tall poppy syndrome'. Basically means that whenever someone stands out from the crowd or does things in a way that isn't the status quo we tend to cut them down to try and bring them back in line with everyone else. It's also one of the reasons why many of our innovators and progressive people move to either the US or UK to try out their ideas and business plans.

I agree Jubaji that a mans work is one of the most defining things in his life, thats why I feel so strongly about finding a work/life balance that fits. Because my family is so far towards one end of the spectrum I guess my rant seemed to swing too far the opposite way. I'm also becoming increasingly unsatisfied with my chosen career, (my fault of course) its mostly office type work, desk and computer stuff, the opposite to the other types of work I was previously involved in, and whilst the subject matter is interesting and challenging I just didn't anticipate the effect that having a sedentary job would have on my body and brain. I have found myself becoming increasingly depressed and unmotivated through a simple lack of physical activity during the best hours of the day. I have come to the conclusion that as men, physical labour is just as necessary for keeping us physically healthy as mentally healthy.

I too have put myself through college, whilst holding down a mortgage. I did it by working as a kitchenhand (dishwasher/food preparation) and waiter for about 8 years. So I'm certainly no stranger to putting in effort to make ends meet. Yesterday I was just having one of those 'whats it all about?' moments. Trying to take stock and ending up with a brain-fart all over the computer. Trust me I meant no disrespect to those ppl who would give their left arm just to get a job. I have travelled to Egypt, China and Indonesia and seen some of the poorest and most destitute people around. I could be FAR worse off than I am, no doubt.

Thanks for the kick in the pants! Any further discussion or feedback would be appreciated.

[kiddbjj]

thanks for the reply mike. I always value your input.

99% of the time I'm a positive and goal driven person. Hell, I just graduated from college in the top 5% with a GPA of 6.5 out of 7 whilst working at the same time so I must admit that it really narked me that Jubaji said I was lazy.

On re-reading my initial rant I can see why it might have seemed that way though.

I was just looking for a little clarity. 'What am I doing?' 'Where am I going with this?' 'What is my motivation for doing it?' that kind of stuff. Just generally taking stock. I just shouldn't have posted it!

All I've ever wanted is job satisfaction and the cash to travel and train. Thats it. My wife and I have a modest townhouse, 1 car and no desire for the glamour life. I have a great life. I'm just worried about getting sucked into the rat race rather than chasing MY goals.

Cheers!

[bigboywasim]

You should be happy that you are living in a descent country. Many people in this world do not even have a home or food to eat and water to drink.

I do not work but I am a full time student who will start working soon. I am a double major too and my majors are not easy IT/Entrepreneurship.

One of the first things they teach you in business school is to work in something you enjoy. This is very important. If you do not like your job then it is better to find another one or else you will spend most of your life in doing something you do not like.

I find peace in spending time with my family and martial arts. I do those two things a lot and they really help me get through things.

[kiddbjj]

its a Bach of Science majoring in environmental health. So basically I work as a health inspector and in environemental protection for local government. We do inspections on restaurants, follow up complaints regarding pollution, noise, food poisoning etc. Its a very interesting field no doubt but I've found the actual job itself a bit of a let down compared to what I expected and how it was marketed to me. much of the job is simply acting as a enforcer for legislation rather than actively improving the community. this tends to wear you down after awhile constantly having to find fault with people/businesses and then force them to have to improve what they are doing. its kind of like being a cop in that regard, thankfully not having to deal with some of the really tragic stuff they see, but more like the frustration that a traffic cop might feel. ie. 'is this how I can best use my talents and be a useful member of my community?'

Things could be much worse though! So its just a matter of navigating and working towards where I can make an impact and get the most job satisfaction. i'm just impatient.

Cheers again

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

kiddbjj, sometimes venting is just venting, neh? everyone get down on themselves or others now and again. the question that defines a person comes down to this:

when things are getting to you... what are you willing to do to change your situation for the better.

sometimes, big change is not practical, like changing employers on the spur of the moment. but it can be cathartic to come up with a plan. a plan for change. similar in spirit to writing the letter to someone that is never to be sent.

the difference is that when your plan is made, you can execute it. it is a productive use of time!!

thanks

[lorenzodamarith]

Hey; you could always do whaty the rich guys in the US do.

Stick with it for a few years to build your resume and then become a consultant and charge ten times as much for the same job!

hello,

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! that is the american way, neh?

have at it!!!

thanks.