What's with most Tae Kwon Do guys?

[troll's lover]

Okinawan karate has had many wins over TKD in competitions like Sabaki challenge, and others.
Therefore, Okinawan karate is the style to use against grappling because it gives the most realistic possibility for beating it.

[Shimora]

Trolls Lover, your reasoning is flawed.
If Okinawan Karate can defeat TKD that does not transfer to grappling in the same way.
The rules of Sabaki challenge give Karate a distinct advantage. In the cold harsh reality of todays mean streets TKD is a far better form of defense than Okinawan Karate.

Strikers have defetead grapplers many times in MMA.

Bas Rutten over Randleman & T.K

Pedro Rizzo over Dan Severn

Pete Williams over Mark Coleman

Igor Vovchanchin over Mark Kerr

Just to name a select few.

[Americana]

I don't know whether the person was kidding, but there is no "real" Korean tkd. I've seen many fob ("fesh of the boat") practitioners and instructors; tkd is tkd. But, tkd is a good begining to the kicking aspect of mma.

[Ronin]

I think if you are proficient (5+ years) in one style of striking, such as boxing, karate, TKD, muay thai, JKD, etc.

AND you spar/train with people from other striking styles for a few years, you will eventually pick up all the basics of striking. Most striking arts seem to teach the same concepts, in my observation.

These concepts include: footwork, balance, timing, hand position, weight transfer, parrying punches, etc. The differences are not that great between styles.

[keithws]

As Shim puts it, there's no beating a superior Tkd fighter.

Look at Yuki Kondo: He defeated perhaps the world's greatest BJJ fighter, Saulo riberio, in record time. Later, he defeated Cafe (bjj world champ) in UFC.

TKD combined with limitted grappling is a lethal combination.

later

[Robbie]

Good points from everyone here.

The guys I'm mainly referring to are the sport guys who think they can beat anyone even though they have had no grappling or Anti-grappling training what so ever.

I'll admit that if a talented fighter is taking Tae Kwon Do then he may be able to beat a lot of grapplers,but the majority of the guys taking TKD are just not talented enough to use it effectively.

I learned Hapkido first and used many of the kicking techniques when I started kickboxing and they worked really well,so I'm not bagging on TKD.It's just the guys who talk so much smack but chances are they can't back it up.

[keithws]

You're a pretty cool dude, Robbie! Respectful as hell.

But, the truth is TKD sucks compared to other strikers (boxing, Tai kickboxing, Kenpo, etc). I was just screwing around making those comments !

One of my buds happens to be a TKD BB and told me a funny story the other day.

He commented on the fact that when he started in training in Tai kickboxing. The first day training, his instructor had him go through various TKD kicks. After a few kicks, the instructor put down the pads and told my bud to kick him in the shoulder as hard as he could. My bud oblidges and the next thing you know, the instructor started laughing. Told my bud that kicked like a girl.

Now, my bud is around 5'6 and 160 lbs. He's very strong and had competed in TKD for 5 yrs, so he's no slouch. The problem being, his style doesn't produce the power or impact of Tai or boxing.

You hear alot of martial artists that started in TKD making the same comments after they trained in other styles. I'm not saying TKD is useless. I'm saying that other striking styles are more productive.

later bro......

[armhunter]

DORK

Shimora,

I think you need to do more research. Patrick Smith got beat by Ken Shamrock, who has never fought a professional fight before the UFC. Then, you claim Kimo was a read TKD fighter, he admitted that the UFC gave him false credentials to put him in the fight. He never trained in TKD at all. Maurice Smith is mainly a KickBoxer not a TKD stylist.
I sometimes teach BJJ in Fresno, I helped start the jiujitsu class over there, they are very close with the biggest TKD school in town. They have went over there several times just to mess around, and they all agree, it is far too easy to take someone down without getting hit.

It is very important to cross train if you are going to fight.

Its like this. If one person was 100% standing and awesome at it. I would not want to be a standing fighter. If someone was 100% ground fighter, I would not want to be a standing fighter, I would still want to be a groudn fighter, or both.

and sorry to say, sport TKD is one of the worst standing art you can take, cause of the rules. They fight with their hands to their sides so they dont catch a leg or they get points taken away. this causes bad habbits.

Some of it though can be useful.

[PassiveGuy]

Trust me, It's all realative to the training you do. If you train realisticly (for the street or nhb) with TKD than you'll be a good fighter. Again, to train realisticly you cannot ignore grappling and must atleast train to defend. If you train bullsh*t Muay Thai than you'll fight like crap. The first Thai boxing school I went to was WORSE than my old TKDdojang, all we did was hit the pads, no sparring, no grappling, just the basic drills over and over. This school never even had a student compete!!! Even the instructers had shitty technique. So basically you have to be preparred for any fight in any circumstances, there are few perfect street fights (martial artist vs completely untrained fool) JKD has the right mindset.

[festiva]

COME ON..LOL...maurice smith tkd ha ha haaaaaaaaaa look further down on the credit sheet ...years of training with ken shamrock lions den...and others ...the strikers always talk about the great knock out ...maurice smith had to SURVIVE coleman on the ground first in order to kick him in the head...that sounds a lot like grappling to me...VITOR BELFORT great striker see him in all the clips but its the carlson gracie training that gives him the opportunity to get back on his feet..it wont change form here ...grappling first striking second even in boxing a man will be penalised because he holds too much because the clinch is nearly unavoidable...to anyone...this said if you have 6 to 8 hours a day to spend on mma then cross train because smith without his striking would not be the fighter he is today but let there be no mistake because those who are new to mma are listening to us that THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES A STRIKER GREAT IS HIS ABILITY TO STAY AWAY FROM A SUBMISSION ON THE GROUND...and that has everything to do with grappling...

[Robbie]

Originally posted by keithws
You're a pretty cool dude, Robbie! Respectful as hell.

Thanks,I try to be respectful towards all martial arts and the practioneers.

I agree with you that Muay Thai is one of the best real world combat striking styles,mainly beacause they actually train to deliver K.O. blows.

Like I mentioned above most TKD schools just train for point sparring,and that is why a majority of the students are not very good real world fighters.Not degrading the point fighter because if that is what you are in TKD for then good luck with it and have fun,I used to enter point fighting tournaments when I was a kid and will admit that I had fun during those weekends.But then I decided I wanted to try some harder combat sports like kickboxing and eventually I progressed into grappling.I still work on my stand up and ground game everyday,to be a complete fighter you must accept what doesn't work and start training what does.Utilize every weapon you possibly can.If you can't grapple then you are not complete yet IMO.

Good luck to all martial artists.

[Shimora]

likuid


"are you assuming that you'll never have to fight in an elevator, or between parked cars, or in any tight quarters where long range is useless? it doesn't sound very realistic..."

If you read my posts again you will see that I said stand up grappling and clinching are preferable to ground fighting on the street. Same thing applies for elevators or Phone booth's.

armhunter, perhaps it is you who needs to do more research my friend. Ken Shamrock was already a pro fighter in Japan when he fought in the UFC. In fact according to the commentators he was "The Number One Ranked shootfighter in Japan" and he was "So famous they made a comic book about him".

As for Kimo stating he wasnt TKD, unfortunately unless you can quote a legitimate source it caries no weight. His teacher, Jo son was Korean, TKD is Korean. I tend to believe that he studied TKD. Stop living in denial.


Festiva, watch Mo Smiths fights with Conan, The Japanese guy in Extreme Fighting and Coleman. He uses pure TKD to defeat them.

You guys have got to get out of this ground fighting mentality. The ground is not a good place on the street, dont go there my friends.

[duchman]

I think TKD is very good for young childern before they go into "hard" striking full contact sports like muay thai and kickboxing.
It makes them flexible and fast but the hands are nothing.

The kicking of TKD is very differnt than kicking in MT.
Most of the korean/japanese kick with there foot.
While in muay thai you primairly with the shin.
Later styles like kyokoshin changed there kicking into thai kicking.

TKD is a ver good base for other striking sports.
It was a base for BAS RUTTEN PETER AERTS etc.

I'm fighting a TKD/hapkido stylist this fryday in closed door challenge match (nhb rules)
I'm going to use my hands in the stand up

[Robbie]

Originally posted by duchman
I think TKD is very good for young childern before they go into "hard" striking full contact sports like muay thai and kickboxing.
It makes them flexible and fast but the hands are nothing.

The kicking of TKD is very differnt than kicking in MT.
Most of the korean/japanese kick with there foot.
While in muay thai you primairly with the shin.
Later styles like kyokoshin changed there kicking into thai kicking.

TKD is a ver good base for other striking sports.
It was a base for BAS RUTTEN PETER AERTS etc.

I'm fighting a TKD/hapkido stylist this fryday in closed door challenge match (nhb rules)
I'm going to use my hands in the stand up

Yeah,I agree with you on TKD is a good starting point for a beginner.

Also good luck on your match Friday.

[Martial Artist]

TKD Guys are funny.