Gracie challenges

[judo guy]

Helio never challenged Mas Oyama. Did Helio ever challenge Mas Terbater?

[Karlinhos]

uh... eh... er....

hahahahahahahaha..!!!!!!!

*whew*

good thing i got that one. i was about to do a search on yahoo for that name.



jg, thanks for keeping me on my toes. (lol)

[duchman]

John bluming (oyama's student) founder of his own style (forgot the name) would knock helio or carlos into queer street.

[pharochuck]

oyama was very tough obviously but so was carlson and in a vale tudo match it would have been foolish to assume anyone could have beat carlson easy

[Alan]

Dutchman, I think Bluming's style is called Shotei... Didn't Oyama know Kimura? That's why I wondered why the Gracies never challenged him or vice versa. Both parties apparently had many matches so i find it strange that their paths never crossed.

And doesn't Bluming say that Oyama cheated when he fought the Bulls? and that his so called 200 fights in america were professional wrestling matches nad therefore fake? He also said something along the lines of him using over baked bricks and thin roofing tiles during his breaking demonstrations. Anybody know how true this is?

[Mr. Miyagi]

I know a couple of Mas Oyama karate black belts. If their art has been totally watered down then perhaps I am way off. But these two guys I know are clueless and not well rounded at all, like guys out of the early UFC's minus the brawling experience. Which leads me to my next point. I'd rather learn martial arts from a 140 lb. weakling than a 220 lb. muscleman. A huge strong guy actually has no business teaching ma unless he can prove early on that it's not his strength and size that is winning fights for him.

[John Bennett]

I challenged and fought Mas Tequila on many occasions.

I got my ass handed to me each and every time.

After finding myself on the floor covered in my own body fluids for the n'th time, I finally learned to keep my mouth shut and may now live to old age, God willing.

[Maxximus]

Oyama wouldn't stand a chance...

I'm sure oyama was very powerful and all that, but c'mon all the stories about him are pure hype! i consider the Oyama issue along a very similar line as the bruce Lee issue...that is both of them were very good in their own right, but everyone who thinks that they were the toughest SOBs in the world are basing their opinions purely on hearsay and sensationalistic hype. You must take into account the fact that neither of them were professional fighters and never faced top level competitors in actual matches. They were both great martial artists and very influential, but neither of them were Superman. Bruce was tough, but just because he was in a lot of streetfights and beat the crap out of a handful of MA nobodies who challenged him doesn't mean that he could've stood toe to toe with Vovchanchin or lasted two seconds on the ground with Rickson. As for Oyama, beating all your students in dojo sparring matches hardly qualifies as actual fighting victories. Its not like any of them were actually trying to knock him out anyway. Even Jon Bluming has said that all the outlandish Oyama challenge match stories were BS. If you were counting all the times my instructors sparred with me as actual fights, you'd probably be able to give them all professional kickboxing and MMA records of 100-0. LOL!! the rest of Oyama's reputation was based purely on the fact that he looked like a big brute and demonstrated his power with a lot of circus type parlor tricks. IMHO, Oyama is just another example of how traditional martial artists come to worship their grandmasters as fighting gods without even measuring their actual demonstrated fighting ability. Given Oyama's brute power and one punch kill mentality, I'm sure he could hold his own in a professional fight, but to say that he could've stood a chance against actual fighters as skilled and experienced as the Gracies is really stretching it.

[bobby_steeles]

can anyone explain exactly how mas oyama "fought" a bull? i mean i've seen the croc hunter wrestle wild animals, but a karate fight with a 2000 lbs bull?

[Shimora]

In 1991 I went to the Torrence academy and challenged Rorion. Rorion would not see me and I would not leave, some lowly Purple Belt came at me and I sent him flying into the wall. I then saw Rorion peeping through his office door, he quickly slammed his door and locked it.
He refused to come out of his office, meanwhile many of his students were blocking the exit.

I cartwheeled my way toward them and then with a springing leap over their heads I was gone.

Gracie Challenge HA!

That guy owes me 100K

[royceg420]

hahahahahahahahaha!!!!