Ryu don't be a hero?

[Ryu (non-working password]

Well in countering the pseudo-philosophy of "equal rights" in the choke out women post, I figured I'd explain something that happened to me yesterday.
Mik_36, I'd like your opinion too.

Yesterday I was on my way to my friend's apartment, and driving along a long road I came across a car parked on the side of the roard. As I passed it, I noticed that there were two guys inside. Both looked rather seedy (sp) and not necessarily the nicest men in the world. There was a third person in the car I couldn't see clearly, and as I drove by I thought for a minute that the driver might have been shoving, or hitting the third person. I thought about it for a moment, and decided that I wanted to check things out just in case there was something wrong. I rationalized that it was the middle of the day and no one would be stupid enough to say try and rape a woman or something in the middle of a long road where cops could pass by just as easily as me.
Still I turned my car around and drove past them again. I really couldn't see what was going on, but the third person was kind of ducking. When I began driving back again, the car started up and drove by me. Things looked normal and the three looked to be willingly together, etc. (I think though...that what they might have been doing were drugs) the scene just had that kind of atmosphere (you had to be there)

Anyway I continued on my way after that, but thought about it the entire way to my friend's place.
What would I have done if they WERE doing something to someone? How much danger am I putting on myself doing such things? I'm not a cop, and I don't have a gun. I do carry two folding knives on me wherever I go, and with FMA I know how to use them quite well, but that won't protect me if someone shoots me.

What is the right thing to do? Is placing my life in danger to check on someone else heroic or naive and dangerous? Or both? If I had a girlfriend in my car, would I have done the same?? What happens if I do see something like that, and a girlfriend is in the car with me?? Now I'd be putting HER in danger. But what about the victim being hurt? I can't just leave them...
But this is reality, and I'm not Spiderman either...

These are tough questions, and I figured I'd tell you about them. I am glad there was nothing really wrong going on....(I hope! I don't know if I could handle it if something was happening to someone, and I didn't realize it enough to interfere..) But where is the stance on this issue from most people?

What I did could have been a fatal mistake for myself...but I would do it again. Perhaps my going back to check on things is more than most would have done anyway??

Anyway, this is my piece.
What do you think?

Ryu

[bobby_steeles]

what would you do? how about pick up a cell phone and call the cops, dumbass.
and stop whining.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

I'd call the cops if I was so concerned. If I saw a woman being raped or harassed by people, I would not hesitate to help her. Some ideals, no matter how "dumb" they are, are worth fighting for. Otherwise, the smart thing to do is simply call the police and maybe to disengage the people by honking the horn and tell them that you called the cops.

[Ryu (non-working password]

Bobby, the question is geared towards if there is no cell phone or such. Though perhaps I'm behind the times not carrying one Your "trolls" are kinda gay lately. I don't really even have to respond to them. Instead I'd rather ask you what your opinion is if there is no phone.

Yella,
that would be an idea...though the car might just drive off, etc. What would you do though if you had no phone? No way of getting a hold of the cops?

I guess there's no right (correct) answer. I'm just wondering about the different situations that could occur.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Take the car and use it as a tank! But I sure as hell would hope they have no guns. But make no mistake, I would not hesitate if a woman or child was in danger. But I guess it depends on what situation it is. I mean, really in your situation, your outnumbered. Its kinda hopeless...am I really that "rightous" to die for a complete stranger that in the end, ended up being tight with the guys anyway? In this scenario, its best to wait and look before performing any drastic actions.

[Oldskulbus]

This is a good thread

I think that it is unwise to go looking for a fight. I think it would probably be a bad idea to go looking for someone to help. If you don't know the exact situation. Ryu, I don't think it was a good idea for you to drive back and see what was going on in the car. But If you were walking down the street and you saw someon getting mugged, raped, or their ass kicked then I think most of us would jump on in there and help.
I think caution is a great asset for any martial artist to have. Since we have skills that normal people do not have we need to use them resposibly and carefully think through our actions before putting ourselves or others into harm's way.

Oh Ryu check your private mail.

[E1am]

E1am

This is a good topic and it's a tough question. I always wonder how far I'd be willing to go to save someone I don't know.

I've stepped into situations before and it's helped. Here in Japan I slapped a sleeper hold on a guy that was trying to attack a woman in the train station one day. I have no clue if he was a random nut or if it was a domestic dispute gone public. But afterwards I wondered if I would have done the same if I were still living in NYC. In Japan I have a better chance of getting hit by lightning than getting shot or stabbed.

I was put to the test again a couple of weeks ago in Rio. I was walking back from a club in the middle of the night and saw a couple arguing with each other. Next thing I know the guy slapped the girl pratty damn hard. My first reaction was to run over there and break things up but then I thought about it: This is Rio, it's the middle of the night, no one else seems to care, I don't speak the language, she doesn't seem to be trying to get away, and maybe this is normal in Brazil. So I ignored it and kept walking. I'd like to think I'd have jumped in if he had actually started beating her.

You also have to ask yourself If helping will actually make things worse. If you see someone getting mugged and jump in you might turn a situation violent than was only going to end with them losing a few bucks before.

If you can, I think calling the cops is always a good idea even if you are going to help. You might need them to come save you once you are involved. It might also help you out later if there are any questions about who did what.

Though I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer here I do wish more people would step in and/or call the cops. I think the hear no evil, see no evil attitude is one of societies problems.

[Mik_36]

Hi Ryu,

It does make me feel better to know that most people like us are decent human beings, but I still think that the numbers of scumbags in the U.S. is growing exponentially (i.e. people like the "choking out women" guy are becoming way to common). I just think we have a society that to some extent promotes an opportunistic and lawyer type mentality. This is not to say that this mentality represents any where near the majority of Americans, but I think that type of mentality is growing every day.

But yes it is not completely hopeless there are still alot of good people out there, no doubt.

As far as your situation, I think you did what I would have done. I think we have to be careful when getting involved in situations that may or may not be what they appear, in this age of lawsuits and guns etc..

This is not to say that we should never get involved, we just have to be careful. I mean, say that you go in there with GREAT AND HONORABLE intentions, fists a blazin', and it is just a prositute (there willingly) getting it on with two guys. Not a great situation either, but not a RAPE by any stretch. You get shot, your wife and kids (if you have them) are widowed, etc.. Or you get sued for everything you've got and as a result your kids can't go to college and have to work at Mickey D's for the rest of their lives.

This is not an excuse for those people who never want to help anyone ever, because they just want to look after their own a*s, I'm just saying we have to be careful, even when our intentions are good.

When a situation is clear I WILL act to help (i.e. an old lady being assaulted) despite the risk because I was raised that way and I want to be able to look myself in the mirror at the end of the day, it sounds like almost everyone here is the same way.

But at the same time nobody can save the world, sometimes there are gray areas in life. For instance the topic of stringing someone up for brutilizing and raping a woman came up a couple months ago. I said that I would help to string someone up if it was ABSOLUTELY clear (NO DOUBT) that that man had raped a woman off the street.

But what if it is a girl who hangs out with gang banger types (and was raped by her gang banger "friends"), I think that is a little different.

If I was to help in vigilante justice, to make a point, I'm putting myself and my family at great risk, I could get shot or sent away for life for these things. These risks would be worth while risks to me if I was convinced that the woman was totally innocent and did not put herself in harms way at all.

So while a woman who puts herself in harms way for kicks NEVER EVER deserves to be raped, my child does not deserve to grow up without a father either. So this is a case where I will not risk myself because the woman risked herself. DON'T GET ME WRONG, SHE DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE RAPED, but I'm not willing to put myself and my family on the line for someone who puts themselves at risk for fun.

Yes this I've heard of this kind of thing happening in my area.

The point I'm trying to make is that sometimes there are black and white situations -like a man wanting to choke out a woman for a fender bender- and sometimes there are gray situations in which we should be alot more hesitant to act because our lives are worth something also, and it would be a shame to ruin you and your family's lives over some bull*hit situation, even if your intentions were VERY GOOD.

Keep it up Ryu, we need more people that give a damn!

[Ronin]

Ryu:

I think you did the right thing checking things out twice. Your second look did no harm, and seemed to indicate nothing to worry about. A cell-phone is a good thing for everyone to own who can afford it, especially for emergencies. A woman getting raped or killed qualifies.

If you don't have one, find the nearest phone if you think someone's life may be in danger. Better safe than sorry. But I agree with the others: don't go charging in, especially without a gun. That is the cops' job, unless it is one of those "on-the-street" situations like the one E1AM got into in Japan. In which case, you probably will act before you think.

It's not good to make a habit of playing hero. A little MA training is not the same thing as police academy. Call the cops.

[Ryu (non-working password]

You guys have some great posts, and great advice as well. I thank you for your thoughts.

Mik, Ronin, and others,
I agree with you guys, and I think actually I might get a cell phone. I need one anyways! LOL.
I will agree with you guys completely on one thing too...I put myself in danger doing what I did. It was lucky for me nothing really serious was going on.

Also,
E1am, it seems I have really misjudged you.
I was quick to "label" you a certain type of person, and I want to say I was very wrong in that assesment.
Please accept my apology for some of the trouble I gave you in the past. I really respect your thoughts on this post, and the actions you took physically as well.
Sorry again.

Take care,
Ryu

[E1am]

Ryu,

Apology accepted. Actually I had no idea you had judged me as anything. We've only had a couple of run- ins on here. The thing you have to realize is that I take almost nothing seriously. Especially not myself. I will crack jokes about anything and enjoy trading insults. I'm not saying these are good qualities. I really do make a concious effort to be a nicer person. But in the end, I'm still an @$$hole.

[bobby_steeles]

Originally posted by E1am
Ryu,

Apology accepted. Actually I had no idea you had judged me as anything. We've only had a couple of run- ins on here. The thing you have to realize is that I take almost nothing seriously.

i think you lost him there...

[Ryu (non-working password]

Bobby, I'm still waiting for your opinion, guy.
Are you going to participate with the rest of us or be that little kid in pre-school who sits in the corner away from everyone else?
LOL

Seriously, what would your actions be?

Ryu

[bobby_steeles]

stop "hanging" on me, i told you in the first reply, retard. now get off my back and leave me alone already. lol!

[likuid]

cool posts guys -

I still get blown away by how many idiots there are out there. (not you guys of course I mean the 'choke the girl out' guy)

this reminds me of something that happened a few years ago. I was driving through a small suburban town with a friend of mine. It was somewhere around 8 to 9 PM. We were approaching a street light when I saw the silhouette of a guy chasing a girl across the street in the distance. As I'm getting closer, I realize the guy is beating the s*it out of this chick. And by the way they were dressed, suit & tie and a nice dress, they must have come out of the really nice restaurant from across the street (we were on the fringe of the town so there wasn't much else around)...anyway, so as I'm driving by, on one side there is this guy stepping on the girls chest and punching her face, on the other side there is a really nice restaurant with about 10-15 people just watching what was going on, all of which were of course yelling at the guy to stop. Well he didn't pay very much attention to them by the way he was hitting that girl.

I know this was really stupid, but my knee-jerk reaction was to turn around and pull my car over and get out to help (mainly because i noticed that no one else was doing anything). My friend was very opposed to doing this, so I told him to run in the restaurant and call the police. So I turn around, meanwhile everyone is yelling at the guy to stop, I start going towards them, when the guy looks up at me and starts heading straight for me. At this point I realized just how big the guy was so I immediately turned around to my pick up truck which was only a few paces behind me, and grabbed a tire iron from behind my seat(i know, very stupid, honestly, i was scared). Well, this did not discourage the guy, he kept coming right at me(damn it, i was hoping i was more intimidating, oh well). So I started screaming that my friend is insided calling the police. At that point he just ran away into a neighboring parking lot. When my friend got back, we hopped in my truck and took off. I never checked on the girl, I just wanted to make him stop.

Anyway, I don't know if I was more angry at the guy for hitting that chick, or at the crowd for not doing anything. My friend mentioned that by the manager's reaction he could tell we were the first ones on the scene to call the cops. So they don't call the cops, or get involved...to me that is just wrong. Now I know I took a lot of stupid risks that night...but someone else could have done SOMETHING, at least to have call the cops.