best style for street...bare with me on this

[fire cobra]

been training for the last 6 month out of the Ymca in memphis tn.

Thaifighter,

What style of Muay Boran do you train in?.

[Clubber Lang]

Just my opinion, but if you want to learn how to handle the pavement, then I don't think martial arts is necessarily the answer. I just learned from the more experienced guys on the door, listened to their advice and watched them work, and through my own trial & error. If memory serves, all the guys who were really good fighters weren't from martial arts, they learned how to fight by doing it every day at work.

That said, a lot of the guys used to train at the Boxing gym, and many of them did Judo. That seemed to take care of most situations. All the rest of the "street" material wasn't taught to them, you just figure that out as you go along.

[Ben Grimm]

That's why everything should be tested again and again under pressure.

[TigerClaw]

Any style can be tailored for fighting multiple opponents. Not just TCMA. ....

I suppose you cold say any style "can be tailored", but Kung "is and was tailored" for such things. Kung Fu has a long history behind is and a long development from actual combat.

Again and again you miss the mark, why do you bother? All know you are just a mocker.

[jubaji]

So is this it, tigerclown? If there's nothing more to the act, why bother? We've all seen the show by now and no one cares for it. Take your act on the road.

[Flaves]

the best style for the street would be either Krav Maga or a form of Filipino Martial Arts, such as Sayoc Kali perhaps.

[Ben Grimm]

TigerClaw, I didn't miss anything. I'm also a TCMA stylist, but I also cross train in other styles. I know what works for me. I'm willing to cross hands with you any time, but I know you will run away to your McKwoon. Why don't you talk to your master Ashida Kim and see if he can help you.

[cqdtonline]

Enough about traditional kung fu being for the 21st century TC, we both know that the origional Masters did not have crystal balls and did not create systems that were meant to handle modern day street scenarios. Also traditional systems (in general) are not ever-evolving. No offense to traditional systems of course, they just are not DESIGNED, were not built for the express purpose of street practicality.

There are some good reality-based systems out there. Not to be bias, but in terms of being street dependable and court defendable, CQDT is a great system.

[Tant01]

A very good point...

Enough about traditional kung fu being for the 21st century TC, we both know that the origional Masters did not have crystal balls and did not create systems that were meant to handle modern day street scenarios. Also traditional systems (in general) are not ever-evolving. No offense to traditional systems of course, they just are not DESIGNED, were not built for the express purpose of street practicality.

There are some good reality-based systems out there. Not to be bias, but in terms of being street dependable and court defendable, CQDT is a great system.

I hope your methods can PREVENT folks from learning the HARD WAY about the legal implications of self preservation!

Good stuff. I often point out that so called "SELF DEFENSE" is a legal term to justify the use of force.

[cqdtonline]

I agree, it is a useful term indeed. Im glad you brought it up because CQDT does begin in de-escalation and moves through self defense instruction in a manner that is street dependable and court defendable.

Many people beleive that "on the street...anything is legal" and this is just not true. On the street anything goes in the sense that you and your oponent do not have a ref to stop the fight, but the legal implications can be severe if you do not handle with intelligence.

[sapatiero]

I'd say that BJJ is useful in self defense if you've done the the non-sportive side of it (call it 'old school', or GJJ, or Gracie Combatives). But personally I don't think any one art addresses self defense effectively - you need a combination of striking, takedowns & grappling. And IMO none of the martial arts REALLY can deal with multiple attackers - awareness & avoidance are key factors.

The most prepared someone could be in terms of the arts might be someone who does a mixture of krav maga (for weapons & a realistic edge), muay thai (to ensure you're using knees & elbows instead of breaking knuckles & toes) and GJJ (for the grappling range stuff and control & restraint)... Oh and 400 metre running ;-).

Just my tuppence worth.

[TigerClaw]

Enough about traditional kung fu being for the 21st century TC, we both know that the origional Masters did not have crystal balls and did not create systems that were meant to handle modern day street scenarios. Also traditional systems (in general) are not ever-evolving. No offense to traditional systems of course, they just are not DESIGNED, were not built for the express purpose of street practicality.

There are some good reality-based systems out there. Not to be bias, but in terms of being street dependable and court defendable, CQDT is a great system.

You couldn't be further from the truth, you really know almost nothing about Chinese Kung Fu it seems. Kung Fu, or rather Chines martial arts have been around for a long time and they were used in real street combat and DESIGNED for that. That is how they were perfected, in real life street fighting and war combat. Of all the styles that have this Kung Fu is certainly part of a long real life combative fighting system. People in the past also had grappling and ground fighting and other various techniques that kung Fu had to deal with.

Also, I think todays martial arts is become weaker not more evolved or complex. The bare basics seem to be what many sport fighters retain. The more advanced fighting has been discarded in many cases as I have viewed. Only a few jujitsu fighters venture into more complex techniques and they usually do well in the sport arena, which is DESIGNED for their type of fighting.

Kung Fu had developed into a very advanced fighting form, covering almost every possible attack and defense, and yes even ground fighting. The techniques are timeless. When I see MMA fighters or grapplers etc their techniques are nothing new, nothing for the twentieth century etc. Some of their fighting skills are very basic and kung Fu has many of their techniques as well.

As far as court defendable. I have asked a few police officers what was allowed for fighters in combat and survival. They said anything that is needed to survive. If the situation is a very threatening one, equal defense for the situation is allowed. I understand that no man should seriously hurt a man who is no threat.

[Tant01]

TC, you should SERIOUSLY read up on a guy named W.E. Fairbairn.

Thank you.

[cqdtonline]

You couldn't be further from the truth, you really know almost nothing about Chinese Kung Fu it seems. Kung Fu, or rather Chines martial arts have been around for a long time and they were used in real street combat and DESIGNED for that. That is how they were perfected, in real life street fighting and war combat. Of all the styles that have this Kung Fu is certainly part of a long real life combative fighting system. People in the past also had grappling and ground fighting and other various techniques that kung Fu had to deal with.

Also, I think todays martial arts is become weaker not more evolved or complex. The bare basics seem to be what many sport fighters retain. The more advanced fighting has been discarded in many cases as I have viewed. Only a few jujitsu fighters venture into more complex techniques and they usually do well in the sport arena, which is DESIGNED for their type of fighting.

Kung Fu had developed into a very advanced fighting form, covering almost every possible attack and defense, and yes even ground fighting. The techniques are timeless. When I see MMA fighters or grapplers etc their techniques are nothing new, nothing for the twentieth century etc. Some of their fighting skills are very basic and kung Fu has many of their techniques as well.

As far as court defendable. I have asked a few police officers what was allowed for fighters in combat and survival. They said anything that is needed to survive. If the situation is a very threatening one, equal defense for the situation is allowed. I understand that no man should seriously hurt a man who is no threat.

I almost didnt answer this one, so one sided in your delivery...but heres more to think about.


1) Kung Fu and other traditional martial arts are great, lets put that out there.

2) Times change, Law changes, people change in the way they train, the way they fight, the way they mug, the way they break into your home. The common use of gun, home invasion, etc. All very different then when Kung Fu was origionated (or maybe I am wrong and China's "bad guys" got ahold of these weapons and mind-sets before we did...)

I am not saying that a Master Kung Fu practitioner cannot defend himself on the street, or that a professional ju-jitsu practitioner could never defend himself against a boxer for example. Im simply, plainly, and explicitly saying: that reality-based systems that were designed to meet modern day scenarios that teach from all ranges and are simple, easy-to-apply, and simple to incorporate; give a practitioner a better chance at surviving the street (ESPECIALLY if they are not a master or high rank at what they do!).

Do not forget the topic of this forum, "best style for the street", Im not saying that mine is, im not arrogant, but I do argue that traditional kung fu....especially in the case of most practitoners (who arent...."Masters") wouldnt be best for the street.


3) Your police officer friend: equal force is a common way to measure legalities, but if your not learning about this sort of thing how would you know? And if you are not training in equal force, how do you react to a scenario in a way that is street dependable and court defendable? The answer is you do not, instead (if you do not train for the street) you simply "do", and that (if your life is not being threatned) can get you in trouble.

4) when it comes down to survival, legalities are out the window. Until then, I would rely on modern day tactics to control, communicate, and de-escalate rather than breaking out a traditional kung-fu technique. No offense and no sarcasm (really).

[TigerClaw]

2) Times change, Law changes, people change in the way they train, the way they fight, the way they mug, the way they break into your home. The common use of gun, home invasion, etc. All very different then when Kung Fu was origionated

Not really. People still fight similar all over. And in the old days it was even more complex and harder to fight than today I believe. In those days people often encountered weapons and long range weapons as well, such as the spear staff, and swords etc. remember in those days they did not have guns so many carried weapons and hand to hand combat was used more. People had to rely on their techniques for survival, not a gun.

Guns did change alot of things. But even Kung Fu has many close range defenses for gun attacks.

I am not saying that a Master Kung Fu practitioner cannot defend himself on the street,

Thats good, because Kung Fu is the most practical martial art on the planet, especially for street defense and it is also the most advanced for of fighting known to man, in my opinion. I am not just boasting, I really believe this.

Im simply, plainly, and explicitly saying: that reality-based systems that were designed to meet modern day scenarios that teach from all ranges and are simple, easy-to-apply, and simple to incorporate; give a practitioner a better chance at surviving the street

Well, this is what Kung Fu was DESIGNER for. It was all reality based fighting in the beginning. Remember, I am not talking about WuShu, acrobatics and dance like olympic forms etc. I am talking about REALITY BASED KUNG FU that stems way back in tradition to actual war fighting and street fighting etc. Kung Fu covers the very simple easy-to-apply techniques as well as the more complex techniques. Each have their place, depending on who you are fighting. But all the techniques have practical applications. There are some kung fu techniques that if they were used in the modern day kick boxing or boxing or MMA fights would shock many, I am speaking of long range circular strikes and tiger tails etc. Things we never see in many sport arenas.

I think the problem here is really the lack of understanding of Kung Fu, I mean, really, the history of Kung Fu is very rich with reality based self defense.

Do not forget the topic of this forum, "best style for the street", Im not saying that mine is, im not arrogant, but I do argue that traditional kung fu....especially in the case of most practitoners (who arent...."Masters") wouldnt be best for the street.

It is not arrogant to believe your fighting style is very effective for the street. But as I said Kung Fu is very effective for the street especially for those who are starting out and want techniques that can be used immediately and effectively in combat. It does take a bit longer to be very effective at kung fu, but in the long run, the time and hard work in practice will pay off..

4) when it comes down to survival, legalities are out the window. Until then, I would rely on modern day tactics to control, communicate, and de-escalate rather than breaking out a traditional kung-fu technique. No offense and no sarcasm (really).

There are many different techniques in Kung Fu. It is not needed to use killing techniques unless the situation is very intense and life threatening. Even then there are many other techniqus that can be used so as to not really hurt the attacker but stopping him from his attack.

And in Kung Fu there are many maiming techniques and breaking techniques that won't kill the attacker. I would have to say that there are more techniques that will just stop an attacker than kill him.

But as far as kung Fu being dangerous, yes it is, and it was designed for combat street survival in reality based fighting.

I don't know what impression you have when you think of Kung Fu, but that impression or idea you seem to have seems wrong.

And by the way, everything is not on You Tube. There are so many Kung Fu masters and fighters that are not on You Tube. You cannot judge a style by what few things you find there.

And whatever you do do not try to judge Kung Fu by that pathetic video from Gracie where it shows the so called kung Fu man, fighting against the Jujitsu practitioner. The man in that video did no Kung Fu at all as far as I saw.

And also, don't try to judge all Kung Fu styles by a few drunken men who act like Bruce Lee etc. that is not a fair judgement.

Lastly, most of the techniques we se in MMA or other fighting are covered in kung Fu as well. The techniques that you will not see as much of in Kung Fu are from styles like Jujitsu or judo etc. But you will find some of them.