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Just rewatched Royce verses Sak on DVD

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  • #46
    i have kept silent when people diss royce for losing a couple but no more.

    you know what i hear? i hear jealousy. i hear a bunch of people wanting revenge for the fact that this skinny, quiet guy wiped about these unbeatable muscled freaks in the first ufcs. gay icons like oiled-up ken shamrock and kimo f*cking lost to the skinny brown man in the gi. there was shammy, in his tight speedo, rippling muscles and trash talking... tap, tap, tap. there was pat smith, who elbowed that ninja guy's head into hamburger, squealing like a beeyotch after royce punched him the fact once. ONCE. kenpo master keith hackney can pound sumo man, but some big shots didn't drop royce and royce sure didn't look too afraid of him before he--um--tapped him.

    so what that man did made everybody wake up and next thing you know you got jiu jitsu at the freakin' local YMCA, LOL. him and his brother like them or not revolutionized MA like nobody before except maybe bruce lee but i'd say even moreso because most people just know lee as a movie star.

    so now he doesn't win anymore against today's top competition, who gives a sh*t. think of how long the average boxer or golfer or tennis pro remains on top... they're lucky if it's a few years before the new guy comes along. that doesn't mean they suck it just means their time has passed or that others have taken their art to a new level, which is the definition of evolution. personally i think after such a long layoff it was foolish to try and fight the best (at that time) in nhb or to try to "warmup" in sport versus a guy who's obviously been training and evolving a lot more, but whatever. and takada don't even get me started on him. that gutless ass ranger ducked and covered the whole time. what a biyatch.

    sak himself said that royce was a tough fight... the toughest of all the gracies he beat (LOL). if sak was so totally able to toy with royce he would have made a bigger statement by manhandling him and knocking him out in the first five minutes. you all seem to forget that against these guys--even in the ufc--royce may have weak offense (especially in sak fight) but one of the best defenses.

    and one other thing for every unbeatable fighter that comes along who's the perfect specimen, how long does that last? how about that unbeatable group, second to none:

    -Sak... oops got TKO'd at Pride when he TURTLED the whole time!
    -Mark Coleman... nothing is more fun than watching the look on his face after Williams kicked him in it....
    -Kerr... this is the guy that everybody said would be the best of the best.... oops guess he's pretty unreliable, sorry
    -Frank Shamrock... awesome fighter but barely beat Tito and then Elvis goes the distance with him
    -Vitor... hmm I remember he was unbeatable combo of BJJ and boxing... until Coutre beat him senseless!

    It goes on and on you get the idea. So do these guys suck now that they lose as much as they win or they don't devastate opponents because everybody is onto them?

    but all the royce bashing makes me laugh, so what if he loses now. the NOW is what it is because of him and rorion's campaign to spring BJJ to the bigger world.

    i think everybody's just been waiting so they can take their shots when he loses, because some people like to see buff men in speedos mount their opponents and ravage them and it screws up that whole fantasy when a skinny foreigner with a gi sends them packing, because it's so unsexy. whether it's towel-snapping or watching Top Gun--a gay recruiting film--there's a lot of men in this country that serve their latent tendencies in various ways, one being by vicariously living through these bouts with a Shamrock-type protagonist as their outlet/fantasy provider.

    i mean, look at top gun: tom cruise is all buff and wears tight clothing and stuff but goose is the smart one, the one with a quick wit and a good weapons man. but he was not physically desirable as maverick was--he was the royce--so he had to die. then he's replaced at the end by iceman, who is buff too. but really goose was the most quality guy in that organization... however it didn't fit in to the subliminal fantasy because male viewers like their men buff and macho. if somebody upsets that in the movie, well then they get killed off.

    so now here everybody's trying to kill of royce and i can see right through you.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Playa
      i have kept silent when people diss royce for losing a couple but no more.

      you know what i hear? i hear jealousy. i hear a bunch of people wanting revenge for the fact that this skinny, quiet guy wiped about these unbeatable muscled freaks in the first ufcs. gay icons like oiled-up ken shamrock and kimo f*cking lost to the skinny brown man in the gi. there was shammy, in his tight speedo, rippling muscles and trash talking... tap, tap, tap. there was pat smith, who elbowed that ninja guy's head into hamburger, squealing like a beeyotch after royce punched him the fact once. ONCE. kenpo master keith hackney can pound sumo man, but some big shots didn't drop royce and royce sure didn't look too afraid of him before he--um--tapped him.

      so what that man did made everybody wake up and next thing you know you got jiu jitsu at the freakin' local YMCA, LOL. him and his brother like them or not revolutionized MA like nobody before except maybe bruce lee but i'd say even moreso because most people just know lee as a movie star.

      so now he doesn't win anymore against today's top competition, who gives a sh*t. think of how long the average boxer or golfer or tennis pro remains on top... they're lucky if it's a few years before the new guy comes along. that doesn't mean they suck it just means their time has passed or that others have taken their art to a new level, which is the definition of evolution. personally i think after such a long layoff it was foolish to try and fight the best (at that time) in nhb or to try to "warmup" in sport versus a guy who's obviously been training and evolving a lot more, but whatever. and takada don't even get me started on him. that gutless ass ranger ducked and covered the whole time. what a biyatch.

      sak himself said that royce was a tough fight... the toughest of all the gracies he beat (LOL). if sak was so totally able to toy with royce he would have made a bigger statement by manhandling him and knocking him out in the first five minutes. you all seem to forget that against these guys--even in the ufc--royce may have weak offense (especially in sak fight) but one of the best defenses.

      and one other thing for every unbeatable fighter that comes along who's the perfect specimen, how long does that last? how about that unbeatable group, second to none:

      -Sak... oops got TKO'd at Pride when he TURTLED the whole time!
      -Mark Coleman... nothing is more fun than watching the look on his face after Williams kicked him in it....
      -Kerr... this is the guy that everybody said would be the best of the best.... oops guess he's pretty unreliable, sorry
      -Frank Shamrock... awesome fighter but barely beat Tito and then Elvis goes the distance with him
      -Vitor... hmm I remember he was unbeatable combo of BJJ and boxing... until Coutre beat him senseless!

      It goes on and on you get the idea. So do these guys suck now that they lose as much as they win or they don't devastate opponents because everybody is onto them?

      but all the royce bashing makes me laugh, so what if he loses now. the NOW is what it is because of him and rorion's campaign to spring BJJ to the bigger world.

      i think everybody's just been waiting so they can take their shots when he loses, because some people like to see buff men in speedos mount their opponents and ravage them and it screws up that whole fantasy when a skinny foreigner with a gi sends them packing, because it's so unsexy. whether it's towel-snapping or watching Top Gun--a gay recruiting film--there's a lot of men in this country that serve their latent tendencies in various ways, one being by vicariously living through these bouts with a Shamrock-type protagonist as their outlet/fantasy provider.

      i mean, look at top gun: tom cruise is all buff and wears tight clothing and stuff but goose is the smart one, the one with a quick wit and a good weapons man. but he was not physically desirable as maverick was--he was the royce--so he had to die. then he's replaced at the end by iceman, who is buff too. but really goose was the most quality guy in that organization... however it didn't fit in to the subliminal fantasy because male viewers like their men buff and macho. if somebody upsets that in the movie, well then they get killed off.

      so now here everybody's trying to kill of royce and i can see right through you.
      Good post,Playa.

      People just have decided to write Royce off after ONE loss to the top Middle weight in the world.I bet the same people who are calling Royce a "has been" are the same people who were cheering on Royce when he was winning.It's like most people like a fighter until he loses,WTF is that all about?

      Comment


      • #48
        didn't you used to talk more like a gangsta?

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Playa
          ** Strawman tripe snipped for everyone's sake **
          Hey, I used to be Royce's biggest supporter, I was training GJJ while you were still wet behind the ears. I admit I fell for the hype, however, one day I woke up and the coffee smelt real bad. Royce is a good fighter and GJJ is a good system, however, the Torrance trash talking and the silly lawsuits forbidding Gracie family members (!) from using their own name made me think again.

          As for the early UFC's, big deal. Royce ambushed a bunch of guys that didn't know sheet about ground-fighting. If you're into that kind of thing check out Gracie in Action, it has real cool footage of Royce beating up Mall TKD Blackbelts. If you search around you should be able to find the tape of Rorian choking out a bunch of Judokas. What a joke.

          Comment


          • #50
            TV Shet/Alohoe
            What Gracie family members has Gracie Torrance sued?
            BS,
            I stay gone from this forum a couple days and all I see when I get back is Alohoe, now TV Shet, taking shots at me. I'm responding.
            Hawk

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by TV Set

              As for the early UFC's, big deal. Royce ambushed a bunch of guys that didn't know sheet about ground-fighting. If you're into that kind of thing check out Gracie in Action, it has real cool footage of Royce beating up Mall TKD Blackbelts. If you search around you should be able to find the tape of Rorian choking out a bunch of Judokas. What a joke.
              Yes, TVS, they were ambushed. Ambushed by their ignorance. These supposedly invincible styles proved horribly useless when a skinny, gi-wearing brown man tackled them. Up to this point the big delusion was that "No one can take me down, I'm too fast." Uh oh... guess that didn't work out.

              As far as Judokas, same deal. I guess Judo alone didn't cut it! I thought Judo was supposed to have ground fighting too.

              As for TKD blackbelts, I had no sympathy for them. Call it an ambush--but we know NOW that it was ambush because we know BETTER. Why do we know better? Because of those Royce UFC victories and those GIA tapes. Sure we laugh now when Rorion squashes mr. mini hapkido man--twice--or beats the blurred-face kickboxer, but don't forget that back in that day one thought being a great kickboxer or black belt in TKD meant you could kick ass. It didn't, once you ended up on your back. It is blase now, it was shocking then.

              Now Royce or all of them need to learn their own lesson and realize that BJJ alone is not enough in this day and age--or they will continue to be ambushed by their ignorance.

              Let's not forget what this issue really is, what TV is describing: unresolved latent male fantasy issues. As I wrote above, the idea that the scruffy-looking, skinny foreigner could vanquish the nubile, strapping, muscular young American studs upsets many males here to the core.

              When Royce lost to Sak and Wallid, that fantasy image of the gilded, Atlas-like, oiled muscular stud avenging his loss didn't work out, because Sak is pretty goofy-looking and Wallid looks like a thumb with ears.

              So now you've got bitter men with those unresolved issues--what behaviorists call "penetration anxiety"--like TV Set attempting to verbally ravage Royce and his legacy.


              Bobby Steeles:
              Yes, I used to go that gangsta route. Before I found Scientology. And I'd like to tell you about it if you'll give me your email address. The past year has seen many changes for me and my family; most notably, I have come home to the Republican Party as an ultra-conservative.

              I'd like to tell you about this and other concepts, if you'll provide me your home address. Being an ultra-conservative Scientologist has changed my life and my fighting style, not too mention my vocabulary. I never thought them "big words" were for me, but look at me now! I can write, because I have been audited by my Scientology and because, as an ultra-conservative, I choose the firing range over fornication.

              Comment


              • #52
                it's dat playa shit...

                Originally posted by Playa

                I'd like to tell you about this and other concepts, if you'll provide me your home address.
                my *gulp* home address? uhh... errr, i'm in the middle of moving--no, uhh i don't have a phone, uhh, i mean..uhh, i have the measles!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Hawk
                  TV Shet/Alohoe
                  What Gracie family members has Gracie Torrance sued?
                  BS,
                  I stay gone from this forum a couple days and all I see when I get back is Alohoe, now TV Shet, taking shots at me. I'm responding.
                  Hawk
                  Don't play dumb. You know all about the lawsuit between Rorian & Carley over the GJJ trademark. For those not in the know, the gist of it was this.

                  1) Carley was the first Gracie to teach in the U.S. this is documented by film evidence of Carley teaching in the early seventies.

                  2) Rorian arrived years later and eventually made GJJ a trademark. Trademarks are easy to get, very little prior art research is required.

                  3) After the success of the UFC Rorian tried to stop other family members not part of Torrance from using the Gracie name. He claimed that the term GJJ is soley his and anyone using it was infringing his trademark. He sued Carley.

                  4) After spending an aggregate amount of over $1,000,000 in attorney's fees and other assorted costs a resolution was reached with Rorian getting a slight advantage. The reality is both sides spent a lot of money litigating an issue that should have been decided over a beer.

                  The bottom line is this- Rorian alienated his family members in the dispute. Rickson is no longer on speaking terms with Rorian

                  Interesting side note- Carley offered to settle the dispute with Rorian in a tradition befitting the family- a grappling match. Rorian rejected this and for a while hinted that he would fight Carley NHB. Carley immediately accepted, however, Rorian did not respond.

                  Historically Gracie family members would often fight each other, however, it would always be behind closed doors, very rarely NHB. Carely & Rorian are about the same age. When they were teenagers Helio would bring his sons to Carlos' big house in the hills. Rorian & Carley would fight, Carley would ALWAYS beat Rorian; in fact it became Rorian's obsession to beat Carley, but he never could. I believe this deep seated insecurity is why Rorian chose to litigate Carley over the stupid trademark BS.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    TV Set/Aloha/Bison, you're acting like a little gossip queen b!tch.
                    Now, if you were actually consumed by the sport of BJJ/MMA or fighting in general, you wouldn't be wasting your time discussing the politics and intra family squabbles of a family you have no part of. You sound like a complete pu$$y.
                    best regards,
                    hounddog

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Hey Faggot, I discuss whatever I want. In the meantime, you can kiss my black ass.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Gossip Queen-
                        Who said you can't discuss what you want? I notice you didn't deny the fact that you're a little b!tch gossip queen. Kiss your own white ass, BOY!
                        -hounddog

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          TV Set: your uncomprehending aggression towards the Gracies I think masks some deeper issues--not all of which I can get into here, but I can tell you that I have pamphlet I want to send you which could change your life. Please let me help you by posting your email address.

                          Having said that, let's be honest: either Royce's or Rorion's kids could shove your head up your own ass if you went to the mat, so maybe a little less of the smack-talking and a little more thought about, for instance, how Scientology could make you a new man.

                          It did that for me. As Bobby said before, I used to go that gangsta route... chillin' with the bitches and hos... drinking 40s... rolling fatties with my dawgs on the front stoop... throwing signs at whack motherf***ers rollin' by like they was gonna do some motherf***in driveby or something... and: taking grappling classes at my local dojo three times a week.

                          Our sensei there didn't like us to spar with gis. He said: "What are the chances of your attacker wearing clothing that you'll be able to choke him with? Uh-huh. That's what I thought. The fact of the matter is, you're more likely to be attacked by a well-cut, oiled, shirtless muscular man who will attempt to mount you."

                          I mean, the man had a point.


                          Anyhoo... that's when I found Scientology and the ultra-conservative movement. I soon realized that sex was a waste of spiritual energy and life force, and that the more of my income I devoted to Scientology, the more books I got. I also now sport a bushy mustache, which my wife hates but I will soon be divorcing her and her material ways.

                          Now, rather than gangbangin', I get my thrills by going to the shooting range, and firing large-caliber rounds into the target sheet from close range. Sometimes I use a pistol, sometimes I use a 12-gauge (even though they're not allowed). The manly shaft of my rifle is no match for any attacker or liberal.

                          Where there once was a picture of Biggie Smalls on my wall, there is now a picture of Tom DeLay. A man's man. A manly man. He may not have found Scientology yet, but he has a manly haircut, and that is a good thing.

                          Let me help you, TV Set. Bobby's afraid, but that's common. Let me show you a life you've never dreamed of...

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            LMAO.

                            Now THAT was a funny post.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Alohoe/TV Shet,
                              You're a liar.
                              1. Carley sued Rorion first, Rorion countersued and got $600,000
                              on the countersuit, whereas Carley received zip. The actual judgement has already been put on this forum, the underground, & in the guard.

                              2. There is film evidence that Carley was teaching after he moved here in 72, however Rorion, because of a passport foul up was here for a year in '69-70 and taught during that time. That is also documented.

                              3. Rorion did not care if the family used the name Gracie as long as it was preceded by their first name. Ex. Carlson Gracie JJ

                              4. The UFC was a success because of Rorion. What he stopped was others trying to cash in on his success by using GJJ and the triangle symbol. Your price as to attorney fees is way off, and once again, Carley initiated the action against Rorion, Royce, and all connected with Torrance at that time. Carley lost big time.

                              5. Carley was 3 or 4 years older then Rorion and the last time they fought was in their teens, Carley being around 17 and Rorion
                              being 13 or 14 and Carley won. It was never a big deal for Rorion to defeat Carley because Rorion's older brother, Rolls, who was only a year younger then Carley, defeated Carley at will. It was well understood Rolls was, at that time, the man.

                              6. Carley never offered to settle this dispute in a match and he initiated the whole thing to begin with. Rorion would have had no problems fighting him, however the case was going to court, especially since Carley was the one that started it.

                              Further, the problem between Rickson & Rorion was not over any suit. The only family member sued was Carley and that was a counter suit after Carley had sued Torrance first.

                              If you're going to lie about someone, it seems you could do a little better job.
                              HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                              Come see me!!!
                              Hawk
                              Last edited by Hawk; 05-18-2001, 01:12 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Hawk
                                Alohoe/TV Shet,
                                You're a liar.

                                bla bla....

                                3. Rorion did not care if the family used the name Gracie as long as it was preceded by their first name. Ex. Carlson Gracie JJ

                                Hahaha, Hawk finally admits the truth. Does anyone else see the absurdity in this statement? I don't see why ALL Gracie family members would not be allowed to use the phrase GJJ. To arbitrarily reserve GJJ for Torrance is ridiculous in the extreme and serves to illustrate that where Rorian is concerned, blood is not thicker than water.

                                Thanks for reinforcing my argument!

                                As for me being a liar, well, your name calling doesn't bother me in the slightest. As the saying goes- name calling is the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.

                                Comment

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