Just Saw The News!

[SweepEm]

Hey Underdog:

I just talked to my friend that was honeymooning in Italy, he tried to e-mail you but it didn't get to you, so he wasn't sure what happened.
But even if you two hooked up, he wouldn't be able to train since he got an infection in his foot. Not good to have a jacked foot and have to walk all over Europe. But this dude is crazy and even is his foot was run over by a bus, he would still be out there waking around.

We went up to Claudio Franca's Santa Cruz tournament a couple of years ago and he competed with a fractured ankle.

[kisshomaru]

flyingclockchoke

Basically I agree with what you have to say. Although most (all ?) replies call you a liberal, muslimbuddy etc.., there is nothing wrong with thinking about the reasons for this terrible act. That doesn't mean you justify them, or that you have to have been in Desert Storm to express your opinion about what those reasons might be.

These terrorists are extremists, you can find them anywhere, near abortion clinics, in Northern-Ireland, Japanese cults, east Germany, anywhere. Fortunately most of them do not posses real money + smart strategy + strict organizational structure to reach their goals. Unfortunately Bin Laden has all of that.

In my opinion this is not a declaration of war, for there is no military follow up, there is no strategic military target hit, but most of all the act has a symbolic meaning, not a military one. This is large scale terrorism, the same stuff we have been seeing in Israel, Ireland, Spain, Germany, Turkey, etc.. but on a much larger scale.

Bin Laden used to be a big CIA buddy when he was fighting those scary Russians in 83 or 84 or something. The CIA recruted a lot of north-african muslim-looking men to help Bin Laden fight, the so-called Afghanis This group (a couple of thousand) are the real pissed-off people, they have the pure-hate + organization to do this kind of stuff. Most images you see of fundamental muslim countries in which large groups yell and burn US-flags are showing the absurd social control in these countries. It's got nothing to do with the Khoran, but with: 'Hey, this guy is not yelling Kill USA, he must be a thread to our system so let's chop his head off', that kinda gets you yelling that stuff.

People, there is nothing wrong with trying to understand this terrible thing, it don't mean you're saying that we got it coming. Although the CIA (+ clones) do not have a history of smart, insightfull action, and a response of their left-overs was predictable, this is beyond any scale.

BTW listen to what the Isreali have to say about preventing terrorism, even in this country with it's very strict safety measures people get through. There is nothing you can do against somebody who is willing to kill him/herself to get their point across.

What a mess



kiss

[flyinclockchoke]

you guys still don't get it...

i've been saying this whole time that we need to punish the people responsible for this, with military response!!! please read over my posts... i will just assume that it's because you guys are angry that you can't read right now and it's because you need to channel your anger at me, that's cool... I can understand and deal with that. I won't be upset.

This is what's going to happen:

1. we kill osama bin laden (or whoever is responsible).
2. crazy psycho A replaces osama, drops lethal concentrated virus agent into LA drinking supply and spreads some ****ed up disease. thousands of innocent people die again...
3. we kill crazy psycho A
4. crazy psycho B replaces A and does some other f*ucked up mass murdering stuff. thousands of innocent people die again...
5. we kill crazy psycho B
6. crazy psycho C replaces B and does some other f*ucked up mass murdering stuff. thousands of innocent people die again...
7. we kill crazy psycho C
8. crazy psycho D replaces C and does some other f*ucked up mass murdering stuff. thousands of innocent people die again...
9. repeat cycle 20,000 more times.

This is what's going to happen if ALL we do is kill. What do we do after we kill Bin Laden to make sure that nobody will do this again. That's the key my fellow Americans.

We can kill as many bin Laden wannabe's as we want, and display our military strength, but someone will always take his place. Is our motive to achieve peace and prevent more dead innocents or is our motive to kill, kill, kill. of course we need to get the bastards who commited tuesdays tragedy. but we as americans should be prepared to experience more of this tragedy. because it will happen again, even if we kill bin Laden. If you don't believe it, then you're fooling yourself. Killing bin Laden will NOT deter other extremists from commiting mass destruction / murder against the US. It will NOT set an example because they are not afraid to die... which is the worst thing we can do to him right? give him the death sentence, right? but he doesn't give a flying f*uck... he's in a hurry to die. so what use is it to kill him? how are we setting an example for other terrorists? there are more extremist mofo's that will do this. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS YOU! killing bin Laden ADDS FUEL TO THE FLAMES. I'm not saying we don't kill him, I think he deserves to die, but I know that he doesn't give a f*uck if we kill him. he's gonna laugh at your pain when you give him the gas, or the juice, or the noose, or the bullet or whatever else get him with. killing him only serves as revenge and resolution for all those affected. sometimes, revenge is good enough. because I want to get revenge. i'm sure most people would agree. but i don't fool myself claiming that revenge will prevent this from happening again, which is what some of you guys on this forum are doing to yourselves.

If you don't think it will happen again, then you're an IDIOT. We'll kill the next f*ucker who steps up and messes with us, but not before he takes out a couple thousand innocent americans, or europeans, or chinese, or russians for that matter. think if those guys had nukes on the plane? what do we do, bomb the shit outta them?

ok, we do that... and they smuggle another nuke and do it again somewhere. are you guys all just plain, stupid, selfish a*ssholes? how many more americans do you want dead? I guess from the sound of the people on this forum, it's gonna take as many as it takes. I'm really sad that many of you guys feel that way. how can you be so selfish to want more dead innocent americans. why not try to make peace? it's always worth a shot.

of course we have to retaliate in this case, because we were attacked first and we must strike back, so don't get me wrong. but afterwards, we need all nations of the world to sit down and figure out a way to solve the middle east peace problem because hurling more missles is not going to solve the problem of dead innocent americans (and whatever other nation terrorism strikes). we will always continue to be a target for terrorist attack. granted we will be spending much more money and have better security measures, but we will always be REACTING to terrorist response, instead of PROACTIVELY achieveing peace.

if you don't agree, I don't give a damn. I'm an American and I have my right to free speech. besides, i know this to be the truth, and if you don't believe it, you're deceiving yourself. calling me a bleeding hard liberal doesn't offend me. if being a bleeding heart liberal results in less dead innocent people and a good foreign peace policy, then f*uck yeah, I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

[flyinclockchoke]

interesting fact

it's not a coincidence that all of Bin Laden's military and espionage training were all obtained from the CIA.

[flyinclockchoke]

interesting fact

... and it's even more f*ucked up that after he learned all this, he turned around to use it against us...

[Szczepankiewicz]

You know FlyingClockChoke, you're absolutely right.

We should just be way more diplomatic in this situation. Go there and really talk things out. Get down to the nitty-gritty of the situation. After all these "terrorists" as they are called just want the same things that all people want: peace, security, and a pleasant life.

Or maybe they don't. Maybe they kill people with bombs and hijack aircraft and kidnap people because they just want to make sure they have our attention so they can perpetuate messages of love. They just want us to understand that there can be a better way of doing things than what America has been doing.


Maybe you're right. America just needs a big "time out" period to think about all the things we've been doing wrong over the years.

I mean, that's all Hitler wanted was a little more room and a little more understanding of his beleifs. That's all Osam Bin Laden, Yasser Arafat, and the Chinese want right? A little peace and understanding.

Hell, I've had it wrong for so long, but now I see the light. I understand now that if we just try harder to talk things out, all of our old enemies will become friends. They will deal with us honestly, in good faith. They will teach us the proper way to all coexist peacefully.


They will never lie to us.
They will never break the agreements that have been made.
Muslim and Jew and Christian will all live together in harmony.

In the immortal words of Rodney King "Can't we all just get along?"

I will nominate you for the delegation and I will give you my full moral support.

Please go forth and spread the peace my friend.

[Qkfx]

sick puke

flying whatever-
you never cease to amaze me with your wrong minded liberal thought process. Your cycle of violence analogy is completely wrong and simply naive. It has been demonstrated by leaders like Netanyahu that the only thing people like these terrorist respect is power. Much like small children they can not be reasoned with. They have no respect for life, they kill and terrorize their own people, why would they not terrorize others? The fact is, and history evidences, that when a country is not only powerful but also willing to use that power to completely destroy threats it has not resulted in a cycle of violence but in greater peace.
You pointed a finger at Bush, probably simply regurgitating the liberal media. But who was it that let our military and intelligence operations fall into disaray for the last eight years? Who cut their funding almost in half?? Oh that's right your immoral, spineless, lying bastard Clinton.
Finally you may be an american by name. But you are completely ignorant of what caused this country to stand apart and prosper from thes rest of the world. You come laong with your liberal solutions, the same solutions that have lead country after country to nothing and than act as though you are so enlightened. If you do not learn from history (meaning socialism, humanism, communism are complete and utter failures) then you will be doomed to repeat it. If you are set on doing that you can get a jump start and relocate now. Try China, I think the progressive followers of Mao would welcome you with open arms.

[flyinclockchoke]

what?

Szczepankiewicz,

I don't know if you're just patronizing me or what... but I don't appreciate it. If you think I'm a f'uckin asshole, you can at least out right state it and not be a jerk about it. It's ok, I can agree to disagree with you. I don't expect everyone to believe the same way I do anyway. I am merely offering my opinions on what I think can be a long term solution to this problem of terrorism. All the other people who just talk about dropping bombs and killing have not talked about a long term solution to the problem yet, other than kicking more f'ucking ass. that's ok too if you want more dead innocents.

I never once mentioned that the United States was wrong or right with the foreign policy. of course countries are always looking out over their own interests. that is not new to anybody. however, everything happens due to a cause and effect relationship. all i'm talking about is achieving different but equally acceptable results. there is more than one way to skin a cat, right? isn't that how the saying goes? who says that the usa can't achieve peace? you guys have already given up before even trying. isn't our highest priority to protect innocents and preserve life of all mankind as we know it? to protect our earth and to protect each other because we're all brothers. of course only in a perfect society would there be no conflict at all, but that's what the world needs to evolve into... if people spent as much time and resources curing AIDS, cancer or world hunger, as they do building bullets/bombs/nukes or planning f*ucked up airplane crash attacks, then the world would be much better off. there is nothing wrong with wanting to achieve peace. for those of you guys who make it seem like it's a waste of time and that it's not even possible anyway, you should all be ashamed.

again, let me state for the record that those responsible for tuesday's tragedy should be dealt with. but please guys, do you really believe that it's going to deter another bin Laden wannabe? how many more innocent lives must be lost when Laden wannabe's launch more attacks?

even colin powell believes that the middle east peace process is not a waste of time. he thinks it's possible to achieve peace. he's our secretary of state for good reason. it's cause he's f'ucking smart and a good leader. that's why Bush picked him. and if Powell thinks we can achieve peace, then why should you guys believe any different? he's our god damn secretary of state, how much more experience does he have in these things over you and me? what experience do any of you have in running a country? I don't either, which is why I let people in the government handle the s'hit. if powell says there is hope for peace, then why are you guys giving me a hard time. bush picked powell for his subject-matter expertise... which happens to be war, gentlemen. bush is going to listen to powell for advice. s'hit, even george sr. listened to powell. so what the hell do you guys know that powell doesn't know? you guys are now all of a sudden, subject matter experts on the middle east, israel, arabs, foreign policy, diplomacy, war, what...???

i have to have faith in Bush and our leaders to turn things around. he's going to have to, because it's his responsibility now and not anybody elses. i have faith that they will act with resolve, honor and justice and do the right thing. Many leaders in our government know well enough that the middle east problem will not go away by itself and that the only way to eliminate terrorism is to achieve a unilateral peace accord.

does achieving peace mean bending over for terrorists and being a p'ussy when it comes to standing up for what you believe in? NO IT DOESN'T. If you guys thought that's what I meant, you guys are all NARROW MINDED. Thank God you're not giving Bush advice and guys like Powell are.

i'm sure some of you guys thought that we should have launched missles against Cuba, during the Cuban missle crisis, right? That would have started a full-scale nuclear war. And all the Russians did was give nukes to Cuba... not even crash a plane into the WTC. What happened then? Bleeding heart liberals saved this country and the world from total utter nuclear destruction. it was crazy war monger generals who wanted to display the power of the united states war machine who would have cost more than just innocent lives. they would have caused the destruction of the modern world as we know it. there is a time to use weapons and a time to use diplomacy. you have to choose carefully, when to use what. weapons and war only become options when diplomacy and foreign policy fail or when you're viciously attacked.

in this case, i think weapons for the short term, and diplomacy in the long term. we can't always keep killing, because then it would just continue to create an endless cycle of hate and death... it would be HELL ON EARTH. It would be just like Gaza or Jerusalem. Those people live in hell. I don't want to live in hell. I don't ever want to become desensitized or have our children become desensitized and happy when a bunch of innocent men women and children are visciously mass murdered. solving killing with more killing is fine if you're a country that enjoys death and destruction and killing. but we are the united states. we are the greatest, wealthiest, most powerful, and the most moral and righteous nation in the world. it's what makes america the most beautiful place on earth. of course we must act, but even our government knows that repeated bombings and killings are horrible if you're trying to evolve into an enlightened global community.

i think everyone needs to stop thinking in terms of right and wrong and start thinking about it in terms of cause and effect. actions produces effects... cause and effect. Our government policies directly influence what other countries think about America and Americans. it doesn't really matter if what we believe in is right or wrong. there is no right or wrong when we're looking out for our interests. if it's good for us, then it's right... if it's not good for us, then it's wrong. don't you all agree? what if you're doing something which you perceive to be morally righteous, but you are totally unhappy with the results that you produce. we know that we are righteous for defending democracy and protecting israel. but in this case, the righteousness of maintaining a military presence in the middle east and supporting israel get's us bombed by militant extremists. it's a simple cause and effect relationship. it doesn't matter if what we're doing is right. it gets us bombed. there's more than one way to solve a problem. why not try and reach for a solution that involves the least amount of dead bodies and eliminates future threats? that's what negotiation is all about... and Americans are the best at it... just look at the proliferation of American businesses throughout the world as proof. successful negotiation does not mean bending over and giving in to terrorists. terrorists should be dealt with harshly. but terrorists react with extremely radical behavior when they get upset, and us having a presence in the middle east makes him upset. upset enough to go to way extremes to do f*ucked up shit to prove a point... and the scary thing is that there are more of them out there. we need a firm policy against dealing with terrorists - death or something like that. but it's the government's duty foremost to the American people to exhaust all opportunities and means to help and protect us, just as it is our absolute duty as Americans to unite together and help our country through times of crisis.

If a dude attacks me on the street for no reason, then I'm gonna defend myself and fight back. But I don't always want to be fighting. I guy attacks me once, not a big deal. A guy attacks me twice, I can handle it... but if guys are attacking me all the time, and especially flying side kicks to my groin from nowhere, it's gonna start f*ucking me up sooner or later... I'm gonna wonder why the f*uck that is? Why am I getting attacked all the time... Do I have sign that says "kick me" on my back? I'm going to start to wonder what I can do to prevent those asskickings in the first place. I'm having to fight a lot more than I want to, but I don't mind fighting because it gives me a chance to work out some anger and I can pretty much kick the s*hit out of any attacker. The problem though, is that the attacker always gets the first SUCKER PUNCH and it always does a lot of f*ucking damage. everytime a fight breaks out, I manage to take some major lumps... sometimes some serious, serious, serious lumps... and it really hits home... I don't want to continue to take these lumps... cause the s*hit is adding up. so I gotta figure out a way to prevent attacks from happening, period. do i have any enemies? that's what a cop is gonna ask me if i tell him i'm getting my ass kicked daily. so I'm gonna tell him yes, and he's gonna say why do I have enemies? why is not important... the important thing is that i do have enemies and that they're capable of doing some f'ucked up shit to me when I sleep... so do I just say f*uck it and bring it on??? sure, but I don't know who to fight really... because i'm no longer fighting a country... i'm fighting individuals... these individuals don't represent their country or any real religion. they are just crazy lunatics...

my attackers won't come out to fight me when I'm awake. they'll wait until I sleep... cause I can't stay up all night... he's gonna f*uck me up when I'm asleep... when I can't protect myself... so is it really worth it to live like this forever... who cares if what you think you're doing is right or wrong. that is the time to re-evaluate yourself and your enemy and find a way get him to stop f*ucking with you while you sleep. you can choose to bend over or you can choose not to bend over... but how you deal with the situation will directly influence what does or does not happen to you again and again in the future. the best way is to make him your un-enemy... so you can sleep again and not worry, because everyone is cool with each other now...

how do we do that? well, i don't know, but that's why guys like bush, cheney and powell are getting paid the big bucks... to use their brains...

ok, even i'm sick of myself now...

[flyinclockchoke]

you never cease to amaze me with your wrong minded liberal thought process. Your cycle of violence analogy is completely wrong and simply naive. It has been demonstrated by leaders like Netanyahu that the only thing people like these terrorist respect is power. Much like small children they can not be reasoned with. They have no respect for life, they kill and terrorize their own people, why would they not terrorize others? The fact is, and history evidences, that when a country is not only powerful but also willing to use that power to completely destroy threats it has not resulted in a cycle of violence but in greater peace.

Did you know that there was a huge terrorist attack on the world trade center in NY on tuesday? this attack was commited against the united states, on it's own soil, the most powerful nation on this planet. it is clearly demonstrated that these terrorists have absolutely no respect for the "power" of the united states. they said "f*uck your power. where's your f*ucking power now that i've crashed 4 planes?" but I thought that we bombed them after the attacks on our embassies in Africa. did they respect our firepower then? no, they didn't. did you even think about these dead innocent people when you wrote your statement above? and why would you bring up Netanyahu? how is there greater peace in Israel now? last I heard, israelis and palestinians were still killing each other? this has been the longest continual fighting in such a long time... they've been fighting for how long now? almost going on 8 months, right? how is there greater peace now? America was just attacked bro... you're smoking crack rock!

I NEVER SAID WE SHOULD NEGOTIATE ANY TERMS WITH ANY TERRORISTS or governments who terrorize and kill their own peoples. But be careful what you ask for. Ask any US war veteran about "Hooverville" and you'll find some pretty scary s*hit happening in our own country.

You make incredibly horrible assumptions about my views and my loyalty as an American. But you're basically persecuting me for my opinions and beliefs. Do you want to become one of those Taliban a*ssholes that we hate so much? Probably not, but that's what you're doing when you're persecuting me for what I believe.

We should eliminate all of the terrorist elements that we currently know about. But how do we keep them from reappearing? Is that not equally as important? perhaps you have a good suggestion. if so, then please share it with us. we need all the good suggestions we can get our hands on at this point, don't you agree?

the middle east peace process and bin Laden (includes all terrorists which might use Islam as soapbox) are two total separate issues. the policies and tensions occuring in that region give rise to radical factions and hardcore extremists. think of the war and unrest in the middle east as a sickness. these extremists f*ucks are a symptom of the sickness. if we only eliminate the symptom, and not the root problem, all we do is create topical relief... we still haven't cured the sickness... we've only removed the symptoms... but because the sickness is still there, the symptoms will always re-manifest itself later... the key is to remove the sickness altogether... fix the real problem.

these extremist f*ucks probably don't want peace in the middle east either... maybe it's because all they know is war and don't know what peace is like? maybe they're all crazy? i don't know and it's really not important either. what is important is that if we cure the sickness, which here happens to be the the middle east peace accord, then it will not spawn bin Ladens in the first place... if there was a way to do that, prevent bin Laden's from occuring in the first place, why not use that option... why should we wait for him to kill innocent Americans first, and then try to kill him after the fact... it seems like a stupid idea to me...

if there was peace in the middle east and everybody got along... israeli, arabs, palestinians, americans, etc... then bin Laden would be out of a job and he'd have to go find a new one at Burger King. Which is what we'd end up doing over there... making money and friendships through mutual economic cooperation. people with a lot of enemies spend money on guns and weapons and s*hit like that. people with a lot of friends spend money on other things... that's why we reduced our budget. and no matter how much money we spend on our defense budget, it wouldn't matter because it wouldn't be war with any foreign governments anymore... it's the 21st century... mankind is evolving, whether you believe it or not. the only thing we need to fear is terrorism. but you can't protect yourself from yourself. you can't predict where they will strike... it's better to not have terrorists at all...

1. how many people think that Timothy Vcveigh DID NOT learn his lesson?
2. how many people think that there still are more people in the USA that have the exact same f*ucked up brainwaves as McVeigh?
3. how many people think that a McVeigh wannabe will strike again in the future?

if you answered yes to any of the above three, how do you suppose we prevent more McVeigh type wannabe's from doing it again in the future? do we just execute the next one when he commits mass murder? or do we figure out a way to prevent it all together? let's hear everyone's suggestions...

[Qkfx]

narrow minded

ok your head is in such a fog it's unreal. Not to mention your liberal condescending remarks. Did I think about the people who died?? You bet I did asshole that is the whole point of this thread!! And when I did I didn't point to U.S. foreign policy as a culprit as you did. Your man is evolving garbage is so completely ridiculous it would be funny if not so sad. The 21st century with all it's progressive ideals, has been the bloodiest century ever.

You say we are evolving, you better ask yourself into what, because the facts are pretty bleak. Liberals constantly want to say it was religon and a belief in God that created divisions, and once we get rid of those we can begin to create this humanist eutopia where everyone gets along. Well every civilization that has done that has ended up commiting the world's greatest atrocities.

You call us narrow minded as though we don't consider negotiations an option. Of course we do, however we are no naive to the fact that we are dealing with a people for whom treatise mean nothing. Why do I bring up Netanyahu?? Because when he lead Israel there was swift and hard retalitation and as a result they did not have the terrorism that they do today under there current liberal policy and leadership of giving away everything in hopes of peace. He knew to negotiate with this type you had to come from a position of power.

And if you consider a debate on the net persecution you are a very sheltered little man who has no understanding of the world he lives in. Persecution is what the Christians in the Sudan are suffering as they are slaughtered and placed in slavery. Persecution is what the women in the middle east and Africa suffer. you persecuted?? please think about that.

You say you don't know what causes the sickness and that you don't care and then in the next breath you talk about moving on with peace. Ok Dr. if you don't know the cause how can you issue a cure??

The cause is simple, the Muslim leadership by dictate of a belief system that they live and die for says they can not have peace with the Jews. As a result they lie about their "rights" to Israel. An excuse to slaughter and rob Jews. The Khoran does not once mention Israel or Jerusalem as their homeland. However the Torah speaks of the Jewish Heritage in Israel thousands of times. The solution is to call them on their lie and tell them they have no right to the Jewish homeland. The fact that land of Israel makes up less than 1% of the middle east and they can't even let the Jewish people have that should make it abundantly clear what their motivating factor is

[Slider]

I dont think that flyinclockchoke is sticking up for the terrorist or defending what they have done at all. These F**king terrorist have attacked us because in their minds we are the EVIL empire of the world. Thats all he is saying. Hes not saying that we deserved this in any way.

[JaredExtreme]

different perspective

Everyone is talking about what should be done to prevent these things in the future. Retaliation, foreign policy, etc. We probably need to do both. Another aspect I think should be brought up is a shift in our military's focuses. Our world has changed dramatically over the last 60 years. Back then we had large governments as enemies and World Wars fresh on our mind. Today, how many major powers have their sights on us? The only nation might be China, but we seemed to resolve that jet issue fairly well. So maybe we should spend a a couple million less on tanks and missiles and put that money in foreign reconaissance and intelligence. I'm not saying to put all our eggs in one basket, but bombs and tanks can't stop a few people from getting on planes. Like the old saying goes "an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure."

[Mr. Miyagi]

a few thing:

1. These acts of terrorism were truly awful.

2. Osama Bin Laden may or may not have had a part in this incident. The US government is not above random finger pointing to save face.

3. If Bin Laden was involved he had massive help, including at least some Americans and an Islamic fundamentalist country.

4. Thinking of America as good and anyone against America as evil is a naive mindset that will get us nowhere in solving this problem.

5. Relations with Arab countries have been strained since 1948, because of the formation of Israel. We can debate endlessly about the fairness of that and the chain of events that have followed from that. How would you like it if your home state was suddenly part of a new religious nation?

6. King Hussein of Jordan spoke very well regarding the terrible incidents; if you didn't catch his speach try to find it.

7. Just because a government official or media source reports something doesn't necessarily make it true. There are huge forces involved in informing the public and the people are masses of mere pawns. We will be told what they want us to be told.

8. I am sad to notice that certain very large media groups seem to be loving every minute of this, it's a feeding frenzy for them. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Evilution]

The media may be having a heyday, but I've noticed they aren't playing any commercials. They are foregoing billions in advertising to just bring the news to people.

[Szczepankiewicz]

FCL

You are not simply “offering your opinions on what you think can be a long term solution”. You started this thread with the following:

"however, i can't help but feel that this horrible act of terrorism was in some way brought on by president Bush's shitty foreign policy towards Palestine and the Arab nations in general... granted, no amount of s*hitty foreign policy is grounds for the mass murder of tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children... i just feel that this tragedy could have been avoided all together."

I could be wrong, but that looks an awful lot like saying that what happened was brought on by The President’s s*hitty foreign policy. And the President is speaking for the American people.

Another quote:
"I never once mentioned that the United States was wrong or right with the foreign policy."

Again I am confused. Please explain the difference between “s*hitty foreign policy” and “I never once mentioned…the United States was wrong or right.” To me you are saying two different things. But please explain it to me so that I can better understand what you’re talking about.

Diplomacy is a great idea. I am with you 100%. But it seems that diplomacy is useless without the fear of retribution. Why should I negotiate when I can take the easier path? Violence is the lowest common denominator in any communication process. Without the prospect of force, words are meaningless.

So what do you do the first chance you get to post on this thread? On THE DAY of the attack you say they should pay…. I’m with you on that.

However, the very next thing you say is “I can’t help but feel that this horrible act was in some way brought on by president Bush’s s*hitty foreign policy…”

Call me dim, but that sounds synonymous with “we caused this”.

Let’s look at it this way: On the most horrible day in modern history, one of the first things out of your mouth is that we caused this to happen and you can’t figure out why I think you are a disgusting individual?