Peace without war.

[bobby_steeles]

mlk and ghandi both got shot too.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Yup,

That's a good point. But they didn't commit suicide. They were willing to die for their cause, but weren't going to waste their lives to prove a single point.


That's too bad. I wonder what America would be like today had King been around. King was a true champion of the people, unlike so many who use his name to fill their pockets.

[brothaman]

Humanity.

First off thank you for taking time to read my post and looking to understand where I'm coming from.

You make good points about the reality of the human condition.

Yes, I lock my doors at night. Yes I do own weapons. Yes I train in the Martial Arts not just to learn and compete but also in hopes that I can gain insights in how to handle and hopefully deter violence towards me as well.

The world is what it is, however I have true belief that the world can be what you strive to make it to be, and that every individual really counts.

Im glad you brought up Dr. King and Ghandi who are the great examples of how one person can make a difference in the course of humanity. The reason they rose to such greatness was not just only due to the truth they spoke but what they were willing to sacrifice in order to teach their beliefs.(their lives)

The hard part is believing and actually living these teachings as they did. Not everyone can do it. Some activists will hit you back if you hit them, call them what you want but the truth remains the same. Violence does not solve violence, Only peace can.

Like I said, Mankind probably won't truly understand this until he is at the threshold of his own annihilation. I pray that it never gets there.
I also have real belief in my heart that it does not have to come to war in order to realize how to resolve all problems peacefully.
Call me crazy but I really do.

Do I know exact solutions? No. Do I know how it will happen? No. What I do know is that War compounds the problem of mans inability to deal with himself and only serves as a buffer to increments of illusional peacetime. In the meantime it is an entity which grows and festers more catostrophically each time it reveals itself.
It will take correspondingly greater effort of Understanding motivated by Love of Humanity to find such solutions. King and Ghandi have shown the way but I haven't seen too much done during these times to follow that path.

I know that your post was in joking fasion and I must admit as well that some peace activists are a little too much for my taste.
(I sometimes find myself with a weird expression on my face when I talk to them). It's just that there is a whole lot of truth to what they believe in that I must acknowledge and respect. I also hope to God no one actually decides to do what your post says.

I often hear that it takes War to Love Peace.

I think that it is a true statement that doesn't have to be true.

I look forward to any additional thoughts or counter thoughts on this.

peace and blessings,

BM

[Szczepankiewicz]

Personally, I would never go up and punch someone in the face, or anywhere else for no reason, or for a stupid reason like this.

I believe that the violence we see in the world comes from lack of self control for each individual person, and the lack of communications skills.

My minor in College is Dispute Resolution. Needless to say I am surrounded in academia by peace loving people. They want to solve all the worlds problems via better communication.

It is amazing to watch people in the real world, the way they act towards each other. You begin to realize that very few people are actually taught how to deal with conflict.

Our parents teach us to read and write, and make all these rules for us to follow. But we learn how to interrelate through hands on practice, with little or no guidance.

It wasn't until college that I ever had any "formal" guidance on nonverbal communication, or any of the other subtle, yet very important factors in successfull communication.

I could go on at length, but I want to leave this one for you to ponder. In my experience as a mediator, there is a primary rule that all must follow: You have to be willing to achieve peace. Without your cooperation, we are wasting our time.

Later,

SZ

[brothaman]

Peace.

Thanks for the conversation SZ. You seem intelligent and have lots of good to say. You're right it does come down to communication.

I don't doubt that you would ever strike anyone unprovoked. Especially after reading what your background and observations are.

I like jokes and did find the humor in your post but I still must contend that it might not have been the best thing to post. There are actually enough idiots out there who would consider doing such a thing.

Thanks again, gotta go practice my guard

BMguard

[Szczepankiewicz]

I see your point about posting it.

Most people that post here are trained in some form of martial arts. Fortunately for us, most martial arts teach that violence is the last resort in a confrontation.

At least all the arts I have studied/researched.

I have found that "attacking" someone is very rarely an effective method of changing their mind. Once you put someone on the defensive, all they care about is protecting their position. You can see that a lot in the posts on this board as well.

If someone calls me a dirty so and so, then I am less likely to try to see their point of view.

Unfortunately I don't see how this problem can be solved on a large scale.

Our school system is funded and controlled by the government. Our teachers are often more concerned with teaching students what to think instead of how to think, and no one is accountable to the students.

Through 13 years of primary/secondary education and 8 years of college, I am just now (with Martial Arts and Dispute Resolution training) really understanding how to communicate with people.

I guess all we can do is take people, willing people, one at a time and try to share the message....

Boy does that sound familiar!?

Regards,

SZ

P.S. If I seem intelligent Brothaman, it is simply a facade, for I know that I know nothing at all.

[flyinclockchoke]

yo bobby steeles

you might not care about what goes on in the middle east, but our US government definately does. why? it's because the world's energy reserves are sitting there. anybody who controls that region of land has a huge strategic advantage in almost all aspects, from trade to business to war.

all this stuff flying around about how humans are not evolved enough to have peace is a bunch of crap... when are we gonna learn to co-exist? when human civilization is on the brink of complete extinction? how lame is that? you mean we should kill as much as we can now, just so we can stop when both sides take too many casualties?

why take casualties in the first place? why not start off on the road to peace now? america is a great country, not perfect, but great nonetheless... however, too many americans don't realize what's going on and why this is all happening. we just want to write bin Laden off as some crazy A-rab. Why? Because it's easy to do so, just like it was easy to write off Hitler as crazy. Hitler (the most recent example) wasn't the first person in the history of the world to try to persecute JEWS. In fact, for the last 3000 years, everywhere JEWS went, people persecuted them. It didn't matter where they went. Everywhere they went, they couldn't get along with the local inhabitants and would either be driven out, conquered, slaughtered, etc... They have been wandering for the last 3000 years. Even JEWS will tell you that. WHY IS THAT? How is it possible that NOBODY on this ENTIRE PLANET got along with them? What could be wrong with EVERYBODY? AMERICAN media always portrays Israelis as being the victims in this whole middle east conflict, and Palestinians as turban wearing terrorists. But they conveniently leave out the fact that JEWS have been fighting everyone, everywhere, for the last 3,000 years. Why leave that out? Because it makes people wonder... WHY?

do you realize how many influential and powerful JEWS hold public office in our country? how many bankers or wildly successful businessmen? how many major media corporations are owned by JEWS? did you even know that the AMERICAN media is almost exclusively owned and controlled by JEWS? Even Jews will admit it. They have vast almost unlimited sums of money. They are international bankers, businessmen, governors, senators, cabinet members, (even a potential vice-president), etc... This is all true... Even JEWS will tell you that. Is it a coincidence that the United States gives more money to Israel than it gives to all other foreign countries combined? For what? Israel is a miserable little piece of land. What sort of interests could the United States possibly have there? Who determines how this money is spent? Why, the government of course! How many politicians in Washington DC are taking dirty money? I don't know the number personally, but I'm willing to bet that there are quite a lot. Where is all this money coming from? Well, all I know is that vastly disproportionate amounts of money are being given to ISRAEL. So you be the judge...

Could it be that these JEWS are manipulating AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY to fit their RELIGIOUS AGENDA? They "donate" huge amounts of money to help officials of their choice get elected. They control key positions in the international banking sector, they own and control the media, they hold positions of high political influence. these people are shaping your life, shaping your destiney, shaping your horrible terror-filled, war-torn future. they tell you what to believe, they tell you what's right and wrong, they tell you who's the victim and who's the enemy. and you believe everything they tell you. you don't want to think outside of the box for yourself. why not get to the bottom of the whole thing? why blindly follow your leader? don't you think you should know what you're fighting for before you fight?

you express concern when the suffering, killing and death extends beyond the borders of the middle east and spills onto our own frontyards. of course you would. any american in his right mind would... but that's exactly the problem. you only do so when it affects you. why do you think so many people don't vote? so many americans choose to remain apathetic about their government. most people studied government in high school, but do most people understand really how the government works, how it's run, how leaders get elected? i don't mean the stuff that's written down... i mean the real stuff... when it comes to the actual implementation and execution of elections... how lobbies are run... who donates what, when, where... etc... how is the money received... what the loopholes are, etc... it's not what they tell you that's gonna hurt you... it's what they don't tell you... it's what you don't know! it's about time the citizens took this country back into their own hands... I don't mean rebel... I mean make a conscious effort to understand what our government is really up to... That's why there are things like the freedom of information act, so our citizens can be aware of what's really going on.

as far as i'm concerned, being lied to and brainwashed by your own government is just as awful as terrorism... in a sense, it's the worst form of terrorism possible... it's like the parent who abuses and lies to their child. if you can't trust your own parent (government) than who can you trust? most children that are abandoned by their parents refuse to accept that their parents are scum and that they've been abandoned. they still love their parents and want to be with them. i imagine that most citizens won't want to accept that their government has been transforming into something they'd never imagined. because there is so much freedom and democracy in this country, that means even the bad guys get treated the same as the good guys (innocent until proven guilty)... the bad guys have just as much freedom to rape and kill and cheat and steal... as much as they want, whenever they want. is it possible that our government has experienced some of this corruption? big business and special interests are now running this country. just come to terms with it. you've been forsaken by your government. that is the truth. now, as patriotic americans, what should we do? maybe we should all vote next time! maybe we should take the time to learn what's important for AMERICANS. maybe we should speak our mind! trade unions were formed to protect workers from big business! consumer advocacy groups were formed to protect us from big business. why? why do we need protection from them? because they don't give a shit about you and me... they just care about benjamin franklin!

you're being used... you're being used to participate in a war that you didn't start, that you didn't want, and that you had no relation with. In the end, who pays the price? 6,000 INNOCENT civilians in the USA. These are 6,000 innocent men, women and children that didn't have to die. innocent lives all over the world are being lost. in the meanwhile, you've been lied to and cheated this whole time... you can continue to "unaccept" and live in denial or you can choose to "accept" how our government really works. if you do choose to "accept", you will see that it's not what it appears to be. it's not about the little guy anymore. it's all about big business and special interests... but only by coming to terms with it first, can you then ultimately begin to revive and renew our great nation. it won't be an easy task, but it has to be done. humans need health check-ups... cars need tune-ups... houses need renovation... why can't governments and nations need overhauls? where is the dishonor in admitting your country is not all that it's cracked up to be? there is none! in fact, it's much more honorable and healthy to examine yourself and ask yourself what you can do to make your country a better place. don't let the politicians brainwash you... not all politicians are noble. for every 1 good guy, there must be at least 100 bad guys... that is the nature of politics... power and wealth is the most addictive drug there is. worse than crack cocaine, heroin, amphetamines, etc, it has destroyed and perverted so many people. it takes a man of extremely high moral standards and will power not to give in to it. not everyone has the power to resist...

Not all JEWS allow their religious views to affect their judgement when carrying out the duties of their office. But enough JEWISH influence has permeated AMERICAN SOCIETY AND POLITICS to allow vastly disproportionate sums of foreign aid (your hard-earned tax dollars) to be given to ISRAEL. This is just a simple fact.

It's time we start accepting that our government isn't really ours anymore! As soon as we do that, we can come up with solutions so that our government is really "of the people, by the people, for the people". Anybody who ABUSES their influence, power, wealth, to shape AMERICAN DOMESTIC AND FOREIGN POLICY in favor of their race's RELIGIOUS AGENDA is not a TRUE AMERICAN. These officials should be thrown from office. AMERICA is a great nation. Americans have national interests, like democracy and freedom, and we should work to protect our democracy and freedom. But that doesn't mean we have to use bombs... When a country is sick and in pain, it could involve many different reasons... Other counties are corrupt, so why can't the United States be? Why shouldn't the United States be? Are we truly as noble as we say we are? As patriotic Americans, we should strive to eliminate external dangers as well as the internal dangers (dirty politicians, evil corporations, etc...). our national interests don't have to involve stepping on and raping other countries, beliefs, etc... points of view will always differ, but do we solve those differences with bombs or do we solve them with dialogue? Americans have always simply just resorted to muscle instead of brains... just because we can... we've got some hardcore fire-power, the finest on the planet... so if worst comes to worst, we can just bomb the crap outta people as a last resort,... EVEN IF WE'RE WRONG... it's no wonder why our education system is deteriorating. how much longer will we have before our children grow up in a war-torn society... what would it be like for our children to NEVER KNOW PEACE? It doesn't matter what race or color you are, parents all over the world love their children. If we care about ours, we should learn from the past and educate our children... prevent what's happening in ISRAEL / PALESTINE from happening here. We'll never solve the problem with killing and more killing. Sooner or later, there will be nobody left to kill... Even if we could totally destroy the enemy (which we can't anyway), are you willing to give up your own life? are you willing to give up the life of your child or your wife? How about the lives of your grandchildren? as you can see, it's much more complicated than just kill, kill, kill... and what would be your reason to die? what cause are you fighting for? what cause are you dying for? it's a political war... started by politicians that don't care about you or your family...

... and for the JEWS that feel I'm anti-semitic... just to clear things up... I'm not anti-semitic. If it were muslims or buddhists or christians using their wealth and influence and power to affect AMERICAN POLITICS in favor of their RELIGIOUS AGENDA, I would feel that same way. It just happens to be that it's JEWS that are doing it. Not all JEWS are... but the ones that are... they need to re-examine themeselves and their oaths prior to taking public office. Otherwise, they can go take up public office in ISRAEL. I for one, don't want my frontyard turning into a warzone and graveyard.

[Szczepankiewicz]

The Great Works of FCC, Volume 72, Chapter 9.

[Szczepankiewicz]

brothaman

You stated above:
"I often hear that it takes War to Love Peace. "

This got me to thinking... Have you spent any time studying the condition of man?

It takes cold to love heat. It takes one extreme to appreciate the opposite.

In a perfect society, man has no challenges. Humans have spent millions of years overcoming obstacles. I think we see the destruction of a problem as the ultimate resolution to that problem.

We then fail to see that the destruction of one gives rise to another.

But how do we determine when the destruction is necessary? Who are we to judge? Something must be done, but which path is the right path?

Is it better to argue over right and wrong, while evil is allowed to spread in the world?

Just some random thoughts thrown your way....

SZ

[flyinclockchoke]

SCIFGJOALFKMVDJORMGV

Dude,

instead of being a cute little smartass, why don't you offer something constructive? you talk about letting evil spread all over the world... we've already let it spread here in our own backyard, and most people don't even know it.

just some random thoughts thrown your way...

[Szczepankiewicz]

FCC

You think I'm cute? How sweet of you to say such things....

[flyinclockchoke]

Thanks for your compliment...

Just for that, I'll be waiting here for you with some tissues... right when you wake up and get a clue... because you'll be crying like a baby when you realize I wasn't joking about all those things I said.

[sccr06]

FCC:
Whether Israel is or is not influencing US foreign policy is not the issue. The US immediately cutting off all aid to Israel and totally reversing our stand on its existance would not change the Muslim-extremist viewpoint about the US.

I know that Israel has often undermined the US to achieve its own ends and in some cases even attacked us. But that does not change the fact that it is simply another excuse for the fanatics to hate us not the be all end all of our issues in the with the Muslim world.

[flyinclockchoke]

SCCR06

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on your last post...

US foreign policy towards Israel/Palestine and the Middle East IS A MAJOR ISSUE in this debate. This is perhaps the single most debated issue right now... WHY DID THIS OCCUR? Virtually all Muslims around the world, some 1 billion people, believe that these attacks were carried out because of US FOREIGN POLICY towards the Middle East. Not just Muslims... Public sentiment outside the UNITED STATES... even our allies in NATO countries have stated that FOREIGN POLICY should be examined. I'm not talking about what they're saying on the news. Guys like Blair have no choice but to condemn OSAMA BIN LADEN etc... I'm sure there are quite a few number of JEWS in British Parliment. There's no reason for me to believe that JEWS haven't penetrated the BRITS like they've penetrated us YANKS.

Assuming that these attacks did occur because of the US FOREIGN POLICY, how many AMERICANS would be totally outraged that this foreign policy has been influenced by JEWS? It would then mean that JEWS are directly responsible for the WTC attacks. JEWS caused the attacks to happen! By manipulating our FOREIGN POLICY, they caused all this trouble and hate against people that AMERICANS never had any problems with. When did the MIDDLE EAST people ever talk shit about the USA? When did they ever launch missles at us, or start wars with us? Or ask for sanctions against us? NEVER... they don't have any problems with AMERICANS. It's all because they feel that our foreign policy is killing them. Who is responsible for this foreign policy. JEWS are!!! It's obvious. Otherwise there wouldn't be disproportionate amounts of foreign aid going to ISRAEL... which is a miserable piece of land anyway... Why would any NON-JEWISH AMERICAN give a crap about Jeruselum? Only a JEW or a JEWISH AMERICAN might have interest in Jeruselum... See what I'm saying?

If the US were to immediately change their stance on US Foreign Policy toward Israel, I think you would see an immediate change in standpoint from extremist Muslims. Keep in mind that US Foreign Policy might not necessarily represent the AMERICAN PEOPLE, but rather a handful of powerful lobbies and special interests that don't care about your average AMERICAN JOE!

[Szczepankiewicz]

Volume 73, chapter 52... if you can't baffle them with logic, rain down upon them with floodwaters of righteous verbosity.


That's ok though, as long as I'm still cute.