Boxing question

[Szczepankiewicz]

Cool, thanks for the breakdown Mr. Obvious!

[Rubbaneck]

Art Jimmerson is not a fair example--he was goin' down no matter what he was throwing.
Some things work for some, other things work for others. Not every shot in a fight has to be a "home run"--You need a few base hits for a grand slam.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Didn't Orlando Wiet do okay for several of the UFC fights? He got pretty messed up with multiple elbows to the face that pretty much ruined is day. He was taken down then taken out.


But I think he was a kickboxer who may have jabbed extensively...?

[Bond]

Rubberneck- You are absolutely correct. Most lead hand punches wont K.O an opponent. When I state "commit with punches" , I dont mean looping bombs with every thrown punch- Then you have Tank abbott.
BTW - Lol on the Frank pic. Rizzo, Jack Tors , Sol Rosenberg, and Tarbash all would make great MMA fighters in my opinion.
My personal favorites are Sols civil war memoribilia skits, followed closely by a few others. -Hilarious.
Orlando Viet? He was a tough guy .I beleive he was a tae fighter and Kickboxer and He fought 2 UFC fights. The first he won. The second he lost- Both were gruesome fights. He pounded some semiskilled guy both standing & on the ground and used an assortment of punches and elbows to do it.In his second match , he got taken down rather quickly, put in Kesa Gatame, and elbow K.Oed(now illegal) by Holland Judo champ Remco Pardoe. Hes no example either. Pardoe was able to control him easily once he closed the distance.. Viet did not have enough grappling skills to compete against a guy on Pardoes level , the weight difference accelerated matters..

[TacticalAssault]

Hmmm ...

I think jabs are just fine in a streetfight, if you're in the open. I wouldn't waste my time with jabbing in a crowded condition, true, but if I had room outside YOU BET a properly-thrown jab ... bareknuckle ... will bust up someone's face every time it hits. Bloody nose, bloody mouth, cuts on the eyebrows, etc.

More importantly, a stiff jab will also temporarily stun an opponent for the coup de grace ...

A true jab is not a "flicking" motion, it is a PISTON motion, rotating your hand, palm down elbow out, and leaning into it like a fencer would lean into a kill stroke. If you think being hit in the nose, or lips, with a fast, hard, bareknuckle jab (by someone who knows how to throw one) won't bust your face up and immendiately blow your concentration for a moment, then you haven't been hit by one

Anyway, as far as other kinds of punches go, the difference between a straight right and a right cross is whether the punch crosses your centerline or not. Other than that they are identical. An overhand right is a sloppier punch, generally delivered from a crouch (which is a feint to get the opponent's guard down), while you loop the clubbing shot over said guard. In a street fight they are very effective because they are a combination of your ducking and punching at the same time, and your opponent is more likely to flinch from the duck.

I also agree inside shots (hooks, uppercuts) are your bread-n-butter shots in a strretbrawl, especially in crowded conditions. LOL, if you're really a smart fistfighter, all you usually need to do is score a solid liver shot, or solar plexus shot, with a digging hook ... most likely into a soft, untrained, unexpecting oppnent midriff ... and you will render that opponent helpless immediately. Most people are expecting a head shot, and can duck. A solid body shot from close quarters as the "ice-breaker" is not as expected and impossible to duck from ...

Just my $0.02 ...

[Bond]

Yes, Tactical, I did not get into the difference between a right cross and straight right-or left -for that matter. Thanks for elaborating on that point. The word "stiff" jab and " flicking " jab are semantics i guess. Our trainer would use jab only for the latter so we would not get confused. What you call a "stiff" jab "leaning into it" implies shoulder and a step in. Yes, that punch works fine. we called it a "straight lead .
On this liver shot, solar plexus thing? Im a skeptic on that one. Maybe if you cold cock a guy.I ve seen solar plexus shots do the job once in a blue moon in boxing. Maybe some tubby or geek somewhere will laydown. However, Throw a "spolar plexus shot at a mangling brawler like some Tank Abbotts in bars ive been to ,and unless your a powerhouse , hell be laughing as his counter sails you through the pane of glass by the doorway. I much rather throw a straight right or left at a monster like that with full commitment , If he wastill standing, Iwould already be clinched immediately so he could not counter and would be forced to grapple for a minute or more- (till the bouncers broke it up) . At that point I would get out of Denver ASAP . ..If we were literally in the street? Id make make for the car and my pistol , If I was on foot, Id throw the left right combo, and if he could take it with glee, Id laugh and start running? If he was faster? Id turn and swing again and try grappling. If he was better grappler , combo fighter? Then I would take my beating like a man. End of hypothetical scenario

[Szczepankiewicz]

Yes, but have you considered this:

What if the moon was full and the clouds were low, kinda like a pea soup fog, and there were 3 guys instead of one. The big guy, in the middle, had the tire chain in his left hand while the shorter guy on the right (that's your right as you face them) had the tire iron and three lug nuts off of a 1977 Ford Thunderbird in his shirt pocket. The guy on the left is tall and skinny and has a spork in each hand, you know, the one's from Kentucky Fried Chicken. Would you still run then? What if they tied your shoe laces together? Not so tough NOW are you ???

[TacticalAssault]

LOL

Bond, you're funny

My statement for the use of a body shot is very true, however not in all conceivable instances. No, it probably wouldn't work against Tank, but then what would? You would have to be a very big, outstanding professional fighter to be able to beat Tank in a street fight ... and even then he is dangerous.

You cannot dismiss a sound principle on a wild, exaggerated scenario like you concocted. There is no "one" technique of any kind that will work in all possible instances, so to try to refute a solid principle base on an outlandish scenario is absurd.

The same is true with your using boxing matches, and the comparitive rarity of body shot KOs, as an example of the "ineffectiveness" of body shots in a street application. Again, this is an invaid comparison.

First, a professional boxer is in the best possible shape and has trained dilligently to take body shots, in addition to which they are able to block them well, also through training. Second, boxers wear GLOVES, so the impact of the shot is spread out over a much larger surface, cushioned to boot, unlike a solid fist.

Therefore, if you remove the highly-trained element of a boxer's abdominals, and you further remove the gloves from the assaulting fist ... and you further ad the element of exlosive surprise (as in a streetfight) ... you have an opponent totally incapacitated with a sudden body shot, either to the plexus or to the liver. Really, almost every time.

Thanks for your input though.

[Bond]

Szcze... Ahh In that case would revert to my Ninja arts and simply blend into my surroundings like the mist,- but not before I stole the Tbird parts to melt down , and covert into Ninja Stars of death .
Tactical- Ive seen so many fistfights and such over the years from Riots in Central park, to streetbrawls on 8 th ave, muggings, and assorted other instances of Mayhem not printable. Your solar Plexus Liver scenario is not really feasible man. Forget about the danger of looping a punch around someones side for the liver, Jackets in the winter make it a real bad first choice as it wont have the effect you desire anyway.. I was half jokingabout the Tank Abbott scenrio, but many of the rougher guys ARE like Tank, or Blood Green.
However be that as it may, whatever works for you. You hit them with your solar plexus Liver shot, Il stick to a fast overhand/straight/cross right to the jaw. Those shotshave Bonds seal of approval havinng seen them work more often than all the esoteric shots combined on the street or in the ring..

[Bond]

Oh and Tactical- Your statement about boxers and conditoning is not valid. . Many boxers are NOT in great shape-they are tank jobs wi guts and little training. The reason body shots dont get one punch KO status often in the ring, with FULL striking resistance is because te dont have the capacity to do so - or thy would have don s already- May o the K.Os would be solr Plexus, or ivr. I trained with a guy who lived for bodyshots. He won his Golden Gloves Championship using them very effectively. They hurt like hell, and would make one drop oines hands for th coup de Grace- which in his case was a patented left hook.. When I sparred with him , occasionlly I would wear a catchers protector to lessen the impact of the blows. I understand and hve felt first hand the effectiveness of body punching, but do discount it -for me- as a street scenario offensive first strike on a opponent who is ready.

[Szczepankiewicz]

"The Bond Seal of Approval"....

Well, if you're gonna go all ninja on them.... You should have said that in the first place. Game over man, game over....

[TacticalAssault]

LOL

Bond, I think you hit the nail on the head ... whatever works for you ...

Different people have different aptitudes, strengths and weakness, gifts and liabilities. For some, pure ground and pound might be the answer. For others, leg kicks and punches.

I'm a middleweight, and there are seldom many out of shape fighters in the lighter divisions. Heavyweights are about the only division where a slug can get away with trying to fight out of shape.

And like you said, some people's instinct/speed/leverage for a body shot is better than others'. And I normally do just whta you said - a suckershot to the midriff/liver ... to take the wind out of the sails and get the hands down ... and instantly follow that with a volley inside hooks/uppercuts.

But I'm too old do fight now (LOL) so I use the best art of them all to handle a fight ... and that is Verbal Judo